The Great Rajon Rondo Debate

[Joe Vancil]

Okay, after seeing Rondo's performance in the Finals, I think it's safe to say we're not talking about the guy nearly enough.  He has some parts to his game that are absolutely great - and some parts to his game that are beyond hideous.  So what does everyone make of him? 

I wanted to project exactly what kind of point guard he is by comparing him to other point guards.  I found it was tougher than I thought.

Is he the next:

Jason Kidd?  No.  Horrible free-throw shooter, beyond horrible from deep, not nearly the passer, not nearly as big.

Steve Francis?  No.  Can't shoot, isn't a primary scorer, much more defensively adept, and a better passer, not nearly as big.

Young Tony Parker?  No.  Better passer, better defensively, more of a distributor than a scorer.

Avery Johnson?  Closer.  More talented, obviously, better defensively, more active.  I like this comparison, except for the fact that Rondo is far better defensively and far more active.

Darrell Armstrong?  Close.  Rondo's more talented and better defensively.  Armstrong could shoot much better, though.

So I'm coming up with the rebounding of Francis, the defense of Kidd, the hustle/activity of Armstrong, the shooting almost of a young Tony Parker, and the chemistry fit of Avery Johnson.

It's an *INTERESTING* combination, and it works for BOSTON, but I'm not at all convinced that this guy belongs in the discussion of best point guards in the league, just due to the glare coming off of his deficiencies.  If he ever stops being the hustle guy like Armstrong, a lot of what makes him special goes down the tubes.  And if Boston gets broken apart, will he still be the right kind of fit?  I just don't know.  But if he ever learns to shoot...how does that change him?

What *IS* special about Rondo is that, right now, it's fun to watch him play.  That was how I came up with the "Darrell Armstrong" part of the equation.  He is a gamer, and puts all he's got out there, and I enjoy that.  So even if I don't think he's all as good as everyone likes to think, I do consider myself one of his fans.

What's your take?

[WayOutWest]

If he ever stops being the hustle guy like Armstrong, a lot of what makes him special goes down the tubes.

That's about it in regards to Rondo, he hustles.  The guy is so over rated because he plays in Boston.

The "Con's":

His vision is not anything special nor are his passing skills. 

He can't shoot despite every team in the league leaving him wide open for the past 3 years, he should talk to AC Green about what he should do about teams darring him to beat them.

People talk about his ability to run an offense, I don't see it.  The Celtics are so full of veterans and a set system that Rondo doesn't have to make any real decisions. 

He doesn't appear to have a high basketball IQ, but that might be youth.

He doesn't appear to have the work ethic of an elite player, his poor shooting is just one example.

Does not appear to handle pressure too well.



The "Pro's":

They guy makes his impact with hustle.

He plays very solid defense.

He crashes the boards and can still get back on D in transition.

He can drive to the basket despite every team giving him space cause he can't shoot. 

He's pretty tough IMO but not tough minded, more like stubborn. 

Great hands, he could be a great passer if he can work on his court vision. 

I think the guy is a very good improvisor but some of that has to do with not having an offensive game or "go to" move.

If this kid developes an outside shot, which means developing a true work ethic and becomming less stubborn, then he can become something special.  He reminds me of a more gifted and more active Eric Snow at this point.  I could see him becomming a Chaucey Billups type of player (cool, calm, defensive leader that will run a team and hit the occasional big shot).

[westkoast]

If you would have asked me before the Lakers/Celtics series I would have said you were nuts for not wanting to consider him one of the top 5 in the league.  While I still have him in my top 5 I think his stock took a major hit in the finals.  I also can see why someone could make the argument he is not top 5 worth.   He didn't have horrible games in the finals numbers wise but he was suppose to be the one player the Lakers had no answer for.  That one guy who was going to ravish their defense like a mini T-Rex.    Based on his previous 3 rounds he was arguably the best player in the playoffs.  When that same player didn't show up in the finals I think a number of people felt they jumped the gun on calling him great.   If you want to get technical Derek Fisher had just as good of a series as Rondo did.  Rondo had better numbers but when it came to impacting games Derek Fisher gets the nod over Rondo.  That doesn't sound right to even say but back to Rondo specifically...Ill do what WOW did and list what I think are the good and the bad.

Good:

I think he has a very assertive personality that you need on any team with multiple stars.  I also look at WOW's stubborn knock in a different light.  He was too stubborn to submit to the big three in Boston after that first title and he ended up being a major force in their run this year.  He could have easily wilted under barks from KG or glares from Ray Allen over the years but he did not.  He even went as far to call those guys out mid season which ended up being a major turning point for the squad.

He is deadly in the paint.  If he gets in the paint he scores.  Whether it comes off a floater, a reverse, or a falling away toss up.    His passing is good enough to where if he is cut off and can't make a creative play his team has plenty of space.  Getting the defense to collapse is 90% of the play in that situation and with his quickness he can make the pass no problem.

His defense is top notch at the position.  I don't think he is quite as good of a lock down defender as a Jason Kidd was but he's close.  At times he gets lazy and figures he can just poke the ball out from a player once they pass him.  That works on a team that has KG, Perkins, and Pierce behind you but if he was to try that on any number of teams it might be a different story.  Though for the most part I think he is the best at his position in terms of defense/team defense.  His defensive rebounding is what I think separates his defense from Deron Williams or Chris Paul.

Bad:

That jumper is horrendous.  Just flat out terrible.  I don't think he has worked on it in the off season at all.  It's like he is too busy playing scavenger hunt with Ray Allen in the off-season (they do actually do this) to work on his jumper.  I thought after last season where he was given open shots he would work on it for this year but the jumper looks just as bad as it has the previous 2 years.  Not only does he have no confidence in his shot but he has bad form.  It also messes up the spacing for the Celtics and specifically KG.

Take everything above and apply it to free throw shooting.  There is no excuse for any guard to have a 'hack-a-_____' strategy used on them, ever. 

He has an edge to him but it is more chip on his shoulder than it is competitive, Im going to beat you to a pulp attitude.  I like that he won't back down to anyone.  At the same time he will do it with a shove to a player (Alston comes to mind) but he won't take them to the rack 5 times in a row to embarrass them.  He is very capable of doing it but doesn't have the turbos going every game.  That might be a bit of nitpicking on my end and asking Rondo to be more of a super star than an all-star though.

[jn]

I had not thought of Steve Francis.  Probably because I'd rather not think about Steve Francis and what an immense waste of talent he was.  Still, I think the rebounding comparison is apt.

As far as Kidd goes, well his beginnings were so long ago that I had to look up his early states.   What I found was that he shot free throws in the high 60's until his fifth year when he jumped to the hight 70's.  Thereafter he was generally above 80.  Rondo, meanwhile is shooting in the low 60's.  As to the outside shooting it's a little hard to tell. That was the knock on Kidd at the same stage of his career and of course Dallas was so bad back then that I never saw him play.   So I don't know if it's fair to compare them without giving Rondo a couple more years to close the gap.

 I completely agree that what he does works for Boston but it's a lot more questionable as to whether it would work for many other teams.   I could see him being a great addition for Orlando though.   The combination of a terrific center who doesn't demand the ball and a bevy of players who have to be closely guarded at the 3pt line would play to his strengths.

[westkoast]

I had not thought of Steve Francis.  Probably because I'd rather not think about Steve Francis and what an immense waste of talent he was.  Still, I think the rebounding comparison is apt.

As far as Kidd goes, well his beginnings were so long ago that I had to look up his early states.   What I found was that he shot free throws in the high 60's until his fifth year when he jumped to the hight 70's.  Thereafter he was generally above 80.  Rondo, meanwhile is shooting in the low 60's.  As to the outside shooting it's a little hard to tell. That was the knock on Kidd at the same stage of his career and of course Dallas was so bad back then that I never saw him play.   So I don't know if it's fair to compare them without giving Rondo a couple more years to close the gap.

 I completely agree that what he does works for Boston but it's a lot more questionable as to whether it would work for many other teams.   I could see him being a great addition for Orlando though.   The combination of a terrific center who doesn't demand the ball and a bevy of players who have to be closely guarded at the 3pt line would play to his strengths.

He lacks the court vision that Jason Kidd has.  That I don't think you can develop to that extend it is just kind of there.  Other than that I agree about the shooting.  We should give him this off season to really work on it and then bring this back up once the season starts.  If he doesn't after how he was disrespected in the finals by Kobe Bryant giving him every open jumper he wanted, I think it would be fair to write him off if he doesn't respond.