Author Topic: OT: Stimulus Dollars for Green Jobs in the U.S.  (Read 1837 times)

Offline Ted

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OT: Stimulus Dollars for Green Jobs in the U.S.
« on: February 10, 2010, 09:43:30 PM »
Change we can believe in. Seriously though, will Washington really ever change?

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/green-stimulus-jobs-china-9791423
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 09:45:43 PM by Ted »
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Offline westkoast

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Re: OT: Stimulus Dollars for Green Jobs in the U.S.
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2010, 11:45:31 PM »
Never

Though this is capitalism, isnt it?  Find the cheapest way to produce a product in mass and make a profit on it.  The cheaper the product the more the price comes down across the board.  I don't think we will ever go back to producing things in this country.  We've become use to outsourcing a lot of work to people outside of the US and the cheap prices we get for all the crap we consume.

Cool sight one time when I was working at the port of Long Beach......a large ship carrying our trash back to China.  Doesn't sound interesting until you realize once the boat gets to China they melt down what they can use out of the garbage and then use it to produce items that come back to us.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 11:48:00 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Lurker

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Re: OT: Stimulus Dollars for Green Jobs in the U.S.
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 09:48:30 AM »
Maybe Cadillac health care plans held by union members...along with non-competitive wages...has something to do with the lack of manufacturing in the USA.

In microcosm it can be seen in the fact that Toyota/GM closed a plant in California.  GM didn't replace the production.  Toyota moved the manufacturing to Texas.  High tax, high union state to a low tax, right-to-work state.  Unions are killing American productivity.
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: OT: Stimulus Dollars for Green Jobs in the U.S.
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2010, 10:36:45 AM »
Manufacturing jobs always flow to where the costs are cheapest. The question is, how far are you willing to go to support the manufacturing. Businesses may pollute, bribe officials to get better deals, fight unions to keep free of them, may or may not be concerned with the future health and well being of their employees or their customers. They avoid paying taxes, avoid responsibility when their products or activities cause harm. They often lobby the government for protection to allow them to pollute. Or enable them to continue to sell their products in non-biodegradeable or non-recyclable packaging.

Then again states, counties and municiplaities need a tax base, which means lots of people working and lot or businesses operating to pay those taxes.  The problem is how far should you go to accommodate business, and to what extent should they be regulated. It's cheaper to produce in China, because manufacturers there are allowed to pollute. Maybe the US should refuse to trade with countries that allow the polluting of the environment or support a currency regime that allows an unfair wage advantage.

In other words, world trade allows good to be produced at the lowest cost, but not necessarily at a total cost that human beings should want to support, or in effect subsidize by doing business with.  Or, even less invasive but possibly more effective, domestic competitors should be free to point out how the Chinese company does business, and leave it to the consumer to decide who to buy from.

A lot of good came out of the protections for consumers in the US, and even wage protection for Unions. Until Unions came along most workers were treated like crap, just like they are in China today.  A lot of the expenses of doing business in the US are good for the people, and they are things you wouldn't want to give up in order to become more competitive.

The stupid thing is that we're trading with a closed regime that doesn't support human rights or deal with the outside world in an above-board manner. Why are we subsidizing their growth, at the expense of American jobs?  This is something that our leaders in Government and in business support, but little of it seems to have benefitted us. The cheap prices were nice for  a while, until our job went away.

America isn't going to come back until we re-evaluate how we deal with foreign trade, the current situation is not working, and not being allowed to rebalance. At some point, US wages will be competitive again, but by that point we'll be as poor as the average worker in China. And they still won't let us sell our goods there.

Offline westkoast

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Re: OT: Stimulus Dollars for Green Jobs in the U.S.
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2010, 10:58:25 AM »
Maybe Cadillac health care plans held by union members...along with non-competitive wages...has something to do with the lack of manufacturing in the USA.

In microcosm it can be seen in the fact that Toyota/GM closed a plant in California.  GM didn't replace the production.  Toyota moved the manufacturing to Texas.  High tax, high union state to a low tax, right-to-work state.  Unions are killing American productivity.

Or the fact that Toyota workers make substantially less than their GM counter parts across the entire board?

Though it is not just car production I am talking about.  I am talking about almost everything across the board from clothing to toys to computer parts to furniture.  We don't produce anything anymore.  Cars are really our last major production area.   Sure the Unions have caused problems, believe me I know I live in CA, but we've become accustom to having cheap products produced in other countries.  The businesses make more money and the consumers are happy because the price tag is much lower.  The bars are not nearly as good.  The pool tables often have issues with the balls curving off after a while.  Even when my friend and his father tell customers that they still side with the cheaper product.

A good example is my friends family business.  They manufacture pool tables and bars.  The competition in the area started to order bars and bar stools from China substainally undercutting their prices.  They have no choice but to order from China as well.  More times than not when a customer is shown an american made, very well hand crafted bar verse the much cheaper, particle board type bars, they go for the cheaper one.   The norm is no longer to buy the best quality but to get the best deal.  That is why IKEA sells boat loads of cheap, crappy furniture to the masses and places like my friends family's company have to jump on the cheap bandwagon just to keep the lights on.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 11:00:58 AM by westkoast »
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