What the Sixers Really Need from a 2 Guard

[sixerscan]

I posted this on realgm but I wanted to post it here as well to get feel back.

Yes this is an Iguodala thread. Yes we have too many but at least this one starts out with that topic rather than changing to it in mid thread. I don't usually like to start new threads but here it goes. Yes it's long, it's Saturday and I was bored.

People have been saying for a while now that Iguodala is a bad fit because he can't shoot. I'm hearing names like Mike Redd or Mike Miller, people who can shoot but not do much else. And people are ok with that, because it seems like that's our "missing piece," a shooter. With someone hitting 3s it opens down low for Brand, ect...

The problem is that without Andre, different holes open, much more major holes. I'm going to use Mike Redd as an example because he's been talked about alot, but you can read it as "generic shooter."

Here is why Iguodala is a good fit for this team:

1. Defense.

Right now, our two wings are Andre and Thad. Andre as we all know is an above average defender. Thad, while he gave a great effort last year, did not amaze with his man to man skills, and I don't think anyone has confidence in him keeping up with fast 2 guards like Kobe or Wade.

So, if you bring in Redd, now your wings are obviously now Redd and Thad. We're facing the Heat tonight. Do you see the problem? Who is covering Wade? Do we play Willie extra time? Great now one of Thad or Redd are playing less and we have Willie freaking Green playing major minutes.

And what about when Thad isn't in the game? Thad is 20 years old, can we really expect more than 25 good minutes a night from him? We're playing Cleveland. Who the hell is covering James during the 20 minutes Thad isn't in? Willie again? Good lord.

So it doesn't make any sense to trade him for Mike Redd and you definitely can't trade him for a bench player like Mike Miller unless you want to get lit up by opposing wing players every night.

2. Ball Handling
Yes, we have Andre Miller and he's fine until he falls apart horribly like the Blue Brother's Mobile as all point guard do when they get old. But, good teams have multiple guys that can handle the ball. Boston, LA, the Spurs, Detriot, all these teams have wing guys that can handle the ball. Iguodala, despite what some may believe, did not have major TO issues. He averaged 2.6 a game, which is fine, and 2.0 after the ASB, which is more than fine. And his assists were fairly high for a guy that spent a lot of the year at the 3.

Now, who do we have after Miller? Louis. Who is not point guard (Yet), he's a scorer, and when you have a scorer at the 1, you need a guy at the 2 that can split the point guard spot and handle the ball or else you end up like, oh I don't know, Milwaukee where everyone just stands around and isolates. So when Miller isn't in the game we need someone that can handle. Like Iguodala.

3. Elton Brand doesn't need a great 3 point shooter to be effective

Remember that guy we gave 80 million to? He's really good. In 05/06 he was one of the best players in the NBA, went for 25/10 a night. His team was 26th in 3 point shooting % that year.

4. How important are 3s, really?

People are getting so crazy about three pointers that they forget that it's just one small aspect of the game. It's not as important as defense, it's not even really as important as ball handling. You shoot them like 18 times a game. The best teams will make a little more than 7 out of 18, the worst will make a little less than 6 out of 18. Of course the best teams will shoot more than 18 and the worst will shoot less, but the difference isn't insurmountable and definitely can be made up in other areas (Like Defense and ball handling.

You can be a good team without being good at 3s, you can been a great team being bad at 3s. Sixers fans of all people should know this.

This team won 48 games and a playoff round shooting a worse percentage than we did last year and their main post presence was a 35 year old Derrick Coleman.

This team made the finals shooting .9% better than we did last year.

So what I'm saying is, don't let one aspect of the game rule who you want at a position. Because it could be much worse...

[TheGuiltyParty]

I'm not even concerned so much about 3 pointers as I am on shots from 17 feet and out. Right now, Miller and Iguodala are the worst shooting backcourt in the NBA. While it would be nice to punish teams from beyond the 3 point line... I'm just worried that we won't be able to punish any team for either doubling down on Brand or playing a zone against us.

I believe dabods has a stat that shows Iguodala's percentages from 17 feet and out and it's not encouraging. What team in the NBA has a worse shooting backcourt than us??

[Skates]

At this point it is really ahrd to say how the team will fit together for a number of reasons:

1.  New players- In the order we acquired them - Speights, Brand, Ivey and Rush.  Brand and Speights supply a strong low-post game and bulk on defense that we lacked last year, plus both are supposed to be decent mid-range shooters.  Ivey and Rush are minimal role players who need to find out how to integrate their limited skill sets with the team this year.

2.  Young players - Speights, Jason Smith, Thad Young and Lou Williams are all still in the stage of their carrers where big jumps in performance are possible, and in fact likely, from year to year.Nearly all of them have the potential to be decent to very good shooters and the latter three focused at least part of their summer on improving that shooting.

3.  Position changes - When the ball gets tipped for the first game this year, if all goes according to plan we will have three starters manning different starting slots than they did last year.  Only Sammy and Miller will be back in their usual spots.  This makes it fairly difficult to compare this year's team to last year's squad with any certainty.

4.  Players who can play multiple positions - The team is chock full of guys who can play at least two positions.  Jason Smith, Speights, Young, Iguodala, Williams, Ivey and Rush are all fairly versatile, so until Mo starts mixing and matching during the season it is impossible to know which players will be playing at which positions throughout the game.

I think Scan and TGP both make valid points, but I am truly going to take a wait and see approach with the team this year as far as trying to figure out how it will all fit together.  I am happy with the talent and the pick-ups they made this summer in the draft and FA, Carney was our only loss of any consequence and I expect both of our RFA's will be back one way or another.

My two biggest concerns are that Iggy be signed to a contract that won't make him unmarketable if we really do need more shooting from his position after this year has played out and that Stefanski has plans to replace or re-sign Miller.  These two concerns are definitely inter-related since acquiring a shooter at PG could drastically alter how well Iggy fits at SG long-term.

[anklebreaker]

I couldn't agree more with Sixerscan.  It surprises me that some people are so quick to overlook Iguodala's versatility and what a luxury it is.  Along with the defense, ball handling, and putting 3pt shooting in perspective, you can also add that Iguodala gives us another play maker on the court, and he pretty much is the heart and sole of our fast break.... which we do depend on.  Shooting isn't as drastic of an issue as some are portraying it to be..... not to mention, Dre has improved his jumper from year to year without having a post presence to benefit from.  

[bebopdeluxe]

I do not think that we necessarily need Redd...but I do believe that one of our two guards has to be a reasonable threat from outside.

If we sign Iguodala, I believe VERY STRONGLY that ouer PG has to be able to shoot the ball from the outside.

For me, that basic need is pretty non-negotiable.

[TheGuiltyParty]

I do not think that we necessarily need Redd...but I do believe that one of our two guards has to be a reasonable threat from outside.

If we sign Iguodala, I believe VERY STRONGLY that ouer PG has to be able to shoot the ball from the outside.

For me, that basic need is pretty non-negotiable.

I agree which is why I've moved off of the possibility of moving one Andre for another. Miller is a really nice player who did a lot of great things for us, but I just don't see how he fits this teams needs right now. I wouldn't move him just for the sake of moving him but I do believe there are realistic trade options out there that would net us the better fit.

[jemagee]

So when Miller isn't in the game we need someone that can handle. Like Iguodala.

HE should turnover the ball less?

[sixerscan]

So when Miller isn't in the game we need someone that can handle. Like Iguodala.

HE should turnover the ball less?

I don't understand what you're trying to say

[jemagee]

Sorry, early morning, just waking up, Andre Iguodala seems to have some turnover issues he should work on if you want him to be that secondary ball handler, does he not?

[tk76-]

His a/to is good, and the 2nd 1/2 of the season he averaged 2 TO's per game.  Not bad at all.

Although, I think Iguodala has been bailed out of some TO's on drives by foul calls.

[jemagee]

Going only on visual evidence, I have noticed the Iguodala tries sometimes to go with the 'fancy' pass instead of the simple pass, a desire to make the 'highlight play' instead of just getting the play done....I think that' an instinctive thing so I don't know if he can change that but i would like to see it changed

[sixerscan]

so you're saying you watch the games? 

He has gotten gradually better at taking care of the ball in these last two years. His last 3 months his A/TO was 2 or better, culminating in April when it was a very impressive 6.1/1.8 (While scoring 20+ a game)

I really didn't see his TOs as a major issue as the year went on, except for obviously against the Pistons.

[jemagee]

so you're saying you watch the games?

What, are you some kind of stat geek, of COURSE I watch the games, the only way to determine anything is to watch the games, for jeezus sakes, your eyes won't lie to you, what are you some kind blogger?

[southjersey]

I trust Iguodala as a ballhandler and not turning it over, I just dont know if I trust him to do the right thing. Last year he forced alot of bad shots, and tried to be to flashy with his passes. Could he be looking for the highlight? It's possible. I think with some veteran leadership we wont see as much of that kinda stuff from him. 

[TheGuiltyParty]

ts the start of last season, Iguodala did appear to have some issues with TOs but that really seemed to go away after about a month or two. He finished the season fairly decently and I would expect him to pick up where he left off. Aside from being completely owned by Tayshaun Prince and needing to improve his outside shot a bit, there really isn't anything to not like about Iguodala's game at this point in his career.