Author Topic: should parents be able to predetermine gender?  (Read 10284 times)

Offline Ted

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Re: should parents be able to predetermine gender?
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2008, 06:22:17 PM »
Reference to a jo,ke from another show i used to watch that ted was too busy being overly manly to compensate for something to notice


UNNNGGGHHH!
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jemagee

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Re: should parents be able to predetermine gender?
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2008, 06:29:45 PM »
Reference to a jo,ke from another show i used to watch that ted was too busy being overly manly to compensate for something to notice
UNNNGGGHHH!

God loves you ted, no matter who you want to be all naked and oiled up with

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: should parents be able to predetermine gender?
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2008, 09:39:35 PM »
I just find it very odd that westkoast thinks chosing gender is playing God while ignoring that preventing life is also playing God, in fact most, religion finds mastrubation wrong because God's purpose for sex is procreation.  When you are having sex for any reason other than procreation you are disobeying God.

Ted?

Are you saying you want to know my thoughts on these questions?

Yes.  Especially about interogating your witness.  Years ago one of my cousins brought home an anti-mastrubation pamphlet from his Catholic Sunday School.  I should have sent him back with a copy of the California Penal Code and highlighted "Title 9 - Chapter 1: RAPE, ABDUCTION, CARNAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN, AND SEDUCTION" to give to his Priest.
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jemagee

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Re: should parents be able to predetermine gender?
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2008, 10:34:16 PM »
Quote
[Years ago one of my cousins brought home an anti-mastrubation pamphlet from his Catholic Sunday School

The bible isn't anti masturbation...just another myth of the catholic church...at least according to my uber religious but porn addicted college roommate.


Offline Ted

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Re: should parents be able to predetermine gender?
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2008, 12:55:00 AM »
Yes.  Especially about interogating your witness.  Years ago one of my cousins brought home an anti-mastrubation pamphlet from his Catholic Sunday School.  I should have sent him back with a copy of the California Penal Code and highlighted "Title 9 - Chapter 1: RAPE, ABDUCTION, CARNAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN, AND SEDUCTION" to give to his Priest.

Not sure what you mean about interrogating my witness . . . but anyway . . .

IMHO, sex is a sacred act between people who are married. It is done for the purpose of deepening love, commitment, oneness, whatever you want to call it AND for procreation.

The decision whether to have children or not and to have how many and when is a decision a couple makes together with prayer and consideration. I think God wants us to have children because its a test that can bring the best or worst out in us and can bring us the greatest joy and darkest trials. We have used birth control to control the timing of our three children only--again a personal decision between the couple and their god.

Masturbation is a tough one. As a teen, I was taught it was wrong, but was never given a full explanation why. It's wrong for me personally because it's taking a sacred gift intended to be used with my sweetheart in a shared, sefless act and making it all about me. That's just what I've worked out to reconcile what I was taught with what I feel now. I could be wrong.

As far as free will and God stepping in . . . I believe in "will" not "free will." God has given us agency, but it's not free. We can choose any path we want in this life, and each path has its consequences. I'm not sure God will step in and stop Dr. Moreau from playing God, but I know he will let Dr. Moreau (and the world) experience the consequences of his actions. His gift of agency demands it. He may punish (Nimrod), but he won't prevent.
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

Offline westkoast

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Re: should parents be able to predetermine gender?
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2008, 01:36:46 AM »
Quote
Technically aren't you copying life?  A shorter lived version due to aging process and shortened chromosomes, but still, copying isn't creating, it's copying - ask steve jobs :)

Yea I guess you can look at it that way.  You can also just as easily say that they are "borrowing" from a person to create another life based on that person.  I mean wasn't Windows created by being based on what Gates saw in another product?

Quote
This just isn't one of those discussion that can continue rationally or politely cause you'll get into zealotry and electing idiots to the white house...so even though I can actually contribute on the scientific side (woo hoo a use for my masters degrees) i'm going to bow out rather than try and convert an anti cloning zealot by telling them why their fears are unfounded and all the good that cloning can provide, including providing millions of diabetics with human insulin as opposed to pig insuling. (it's my favorite positive cloning example)

I actually find this to be a good conversation.  Not really expecting anyone to fully agree with each other but it is interesting to see how certain people interpret/view the same things.  Where I see playing god, WOW does not.   You see it one way and Ted see's it another way.  Many sides to the coin.
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jemagee

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Re: should parents be able to predetermine gender?
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2008, 08:49:29 AM »
The problem is that the 'playing god' concept, which can be countered with rational religious arguments but is still ignored because of the monlithic way people treat religion as an unbending unyielding unchanging thing is that it ignores the numerous positive beneifts the SCIENCE of cloning can do to alleviate suffering throughout the world.

Let me ask you a question....does god value some aspects of life over other aspects of life or does god value all life equally?

Offline Reality

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Re: should parents be able to predetermine gender?
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2008, 09:39:10 AM »
Not sure what you mean about interrogating my witness . . . but anyway . . .
Ted I wasn't sure what he meant either but with his earlier post of:
Quote
WayOutWest (including Golden Girls re-run hand parties). 

maybe it's best not to know.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: should parents be able to predetermine gender?
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2008, 04:39:59 PM »
Technically aren't you copying life?  A shorter lived version due to aging process and shortened chromosomes, but still, copying isn't creating, it's copying - ask steve jobs :)

I missed that comment early on.  Yes Steve Jobs is an expert on copying, everything Apple was founded on was copied.  Too bad for him Gates was 10X the buisness man with only half of Jobs ability to copy revolutionary ideas from other companies.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

jemagee

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Re: should parents be able to predetermine gender?
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2008, 04:56:25 PM »
Technically aren't you copying life?  A shorter lived version due to aging process and shortened chromosomes, but still, copying isn't creating, it's copying - ask steve jobs :)

I missed that comment early on.  Yes Steve Jobs is an expert on copying, everything Apple was founded on was copied.  Too bad for him Gates was 10X the buisness man with only half of Jobs ability to copy revolutionary ideas from other companies.
Technically aren't you copying life?  A shorter lived version due to aging process and shortened chromosomes, but still, copying isn't creating, it's copying - ask steve jobs :)

I missed that comment early on.  Yes Steve Jobs is an expert on copying, everything Apple was founded on was copied.  Too bad for him Gates was 10X the buisness man with only half of Jobs ability to copy revolutionary ideas from other companies.

I still think xerox share holders have a huge class action lawswuit somehwere if they finagle it right...dear god did that company F it all up for themselves.

Anyway...Steve Jobs left apple in disgrace, started pixar, made apple relevant again while innovating many new technologies and is now the single largest share holder of one of the biggest companies in the world.

Apple copied the GUI from Xerox and then Microsoft copied the GUI from Apple....i'm not sure how that makes gates more of a business man.

Xerox and IBM made some ginormous mistakes (in my opinion) early on in the comptuer age and both gates and jobs were good at jumping on the opportunities, but in terms of who i'd rather start a company with today, i'd pick jobs hands down every time...editors note - i'm pro apple and my fsecond home computer was an apples 2gs the day they were first released.

Jobs and Gates are entirely different businessmen in my mind and both incredibly successful, but I find Jobs a better innovator and facilitator

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: should parents be able to predetermine gender?
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2008, 05:33:17 PM »
We all owe Xerox thanks for the PC because they made the GUI, networking, multi-media, OOP and laser printers a reality.

For the money I would want to work for Gates, that's a no brainer since he just wins.

For the inovation I would want to work for Henry Ford or Jack Welch.

"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

jemagee

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Re: should parents be able to predetermine gender?
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2008, 08:05:02 PM »
We all owe Xerox thanks for the PC because they made the GUI, networking, multi-media, OOP and laser printers a reality.

For the money I would want to work for Gates, that's a no brainer since he just wins.

For the inovation I would want to work for Henry Ford or Jack Welch.



Well Fords dead and welch always struck me as more of a 'seller' than anything else...i always thought xerox sharehodlers of the 80s have a great lawsuit - i mean XEROX should control the fracking world right now they were just so stupid....Xerox also had the first WYSIWYG word processor.

I know business isn't ethical, i just have always felt gates was more unethical than jobs...jobs made it clear he was going to steal from you, and some people at xerox knew he was going to, gates was more devious about it....at least from what i've read (dealers of lightening is an excellent book)

Plus Bill Gates inability to get a decent hair cut even when he was worth 40 billion dollars always made me wary of him