Tex Winter on Kobe...

[Lurker]

From an ESPN blog....

Tex Winter Compares Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan

March 29, 2007 1:59 PM

Roland Lazenby's Lakernoise blog has all kinds of interesting points to add to this debate, from Phil Jackson's longtime right-hand man (and current Laker consultant) Tex Winter. Winter has been around both Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant for almost their entire careers. You should really read the whole thing, but here are some excerpts that Lazenby has generously let me cut and paste:

A few years back, the Lakers coaching staff concluded Bryant and Jordan were much alike, almost eerie, in fact, when it came to the alpha male qualities of their competitive natures.

Kobe and Michael were ruthless when it came to winning, everyone agreed.

And their skills were similar.

Except Michael's hands were larger.

The major difference between the two came with college experience. Jordan had played in a basketball system for Dean Smith at North Carolina, thus he was better prepared to play within a team concept.

Winter says they're both very much alike:

"They both display tremendous reaction, quickness and jumping ability. Both have a good shooting touch. Some people say Kobe is a better shooter, but Michael really developed as a shooter as he went along. I don't know if Kobe is a better shooter than Michael was at his best."

Observers like to point out that Jordan played on a Chicago Bulls team with no great center, but Winter always countered that Jordan was a great post-up player and in essence was the premier post weapon of his time.

Bryant himself came into the NBA with amazingly good post skills, but there was never room for him to play in the post with Shaquille O'Neal occupying the lane during their years together with the Lakers.

In a lot of ways, Bryant is Jordan's equal as a post player, Winter said, except for one critical element. "What's happened to Kobe and his post play - and he is a great post player - is that he's catching the ball just out of the lane and the defenders are forcing him out toward the wing."

As a result of getting pushed out of the post, Winter worries that Bryant may rely too heavily on three-pointers, which Bryant often shoots against intense pressure.

Winter also admits that Bryant abandons aspects of the triangle offense with some regularity. But that's not Winter's main complaint with the guard:

"I'd like to see him play better defense," Winter said, adding that he had addressed the issue recently with Bryant but didn't come away with the idea that Bryant was intent on changing his approach.

"You know Kobe," Winter said with a chuckle. "He has his game plan. I think he heard me. But he feels there's a certain way he's got to play the game. But it doesn't involve a lot of basically sound defense."

Because the Lakers need so much of his effort at the offensive end, Bryant has adopted a save-energy plan on the defensive end, Winter said. "He's basically playing a lot of one-man zone. He's doing a lot of switching, zoning up, trying to come up with the interception.

"The way Kobe plays defensively affects the team," Winter added. "Anybody that doesn't play consistently good defense hurts the team. That's not only Kobe. Our other guards tend to gamble and get beat. Another problem is that the screen and roll is not played correctly."

Winter never really says who's better. But to me, at this stage that's a victory for the legacy of Kobe Bryant. Winter is tough, honest, and as good an authority on this topic as we'll ever get. If he thinks it's a debate worth having, that's really something.

[WayOutWest]

IMO, if the Lakers had a great defender like Pippen, we wouldn't be talking about Kobe's style of defense.  Much like Jordan, Kobe can lock someone down someone on defense when needed.  Durring the game Kobe somewhat coasts, but coasting defense from Kobe is better than most defenders in the league with the exception of guys like Artest and Bowen.

IMO Kobe is a superior talent than Jordan, as good or better at shooting, slashing (when he choses) and ball handler, BUT he's not MJ's equal as a player.  Kobe is better than MJ was until MJ bought into PJ's coaching and started trusting his team mates, but Kobe has not macthed MJ as a player after MJ became a complete player.  As Tex stated, Kobe tends to go out on his own much too often.

[Lurker]

I agree.  I don't think Tex is calling Kobe a bad defender.  He is just calling him "lazy" in the sense that he conserves for the offensive end.  A second strong defender would help and challenge Kobe to raise his intensity.  Also, like the Bulls, this would create a lot of easy buckets which would take some of the offensive load from Kobe.

[westkoast]

I think alot of us on the board, laker fans or non-laker fans, have both said that he doesn't play great defense for any length of time.  Nor has he been deserving of some of the defensive awards he has recieved.  The second year the Lakers won the championship he played really good defense the entire year but it kind of dropped off from there yet the awards did not.

Lurker I think you have it right.  I think what Tex is saying is that Kobe feels that he needs to be stronger on the offensive end for the Lakers to be more competitive.  It is lazy in the sense for conserving energy like you said.   Right now, I'd say that is true.  Even if Kobe started playing real good defense for 40 minutes instead of the last 4 minutes of the 4th the Lakers as a whole as not a very good defensive team. It def would help and maybe everyone would play harder D if he did, however I think the Lakers lack defensive minded players as a whole.  Kobe is not a defense first player and everyone else on the squad is not (Walton=pass first, Odom=Pass first, Cook,Radman,Smush=offense first).  Even Sasha who is one of the Lakers better on ball defenders is an offensive minded player.  It is a catch 22 for Kobe, if he played harder defense but they struggled on the offensive end he would need to shoot more.  If they struggle on the defensive end then he needs to step his game up, even if it means the offense suffers.....in which people would say he needs to shoot more.  Personally I would love to see him step his defense up and let the Laker offense suffer a bit.  IMO in the long run they would be a better basketball team.

One HUGE knock i've been saying about him all season long is that he is very lazy at boxing players out.  The guy could have 8-9 rebounds a game easily if he would box players out.  I cannot tell you how many times PER GAME that I see him not putting a body on a player. 

edit: Also to add Phil Jackson talked about it before one of the Laker home games a few months ago  and he too has said he feels Kobe's defense this year is not quite what it was been in past years.  He says he knows that it is due to the fact his knee is not once what it was and his lateral movement on that end of the floor has been changed.  That one man zone comment from Tex Winters seems to point to that also.  He is playing a weaker, lazier offense that gives him more time to react to a move made by a player.

[Reality]

I think if Kobe was Michael Jordan, he would be as good as Michael Jordan.

[westkoast]

I think if Kobe was Michael Jordan, he would be as good as Michael Jordan.

It's pretty evident to everyone who watches basketball that they are very very similar in many aspects of the game....

The problem is that basketball is a team sport.  I don't want to have to spell it out for you, think about it and then hit the reply button.

[Rolando Blackman]

Hey wk!

It has been a long time since I last posted a link to this Jack McCallum article on MJ - Bryant and Jordan are alike in more ways than their basketball prowess, it seems.
   
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/jordan_retires/news/1999/01/13/mccallum/index.html

The 'cruel, churlish' Jordan - I sdtill get some yuks when I read that.
 
-RB
Shaq #1