Author Topic: So what does everyone think about spying?  (Read 2405 times)

Offline WayOutWest

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So what does everyone think about spying?
« on: December 22, 2005, 11:56:12 AM »
Bush seems to think it's ok to spy on US citizens without their knowledge and without court approval but he's mad it became public knowledge.  Now the gov is giving money to local govs to create private citizen spy networks.

I am amazed at the parody between the Bush regime and Nazi Germany.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2005, 11:57:12 AM by WayOutWest »
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Offline westkoast

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So what does everyone think about spying?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2005, 01:32:23 PM »
If only the citizens of the united states could take what the government says and it happend in exactly the way they put it.  Anyone who believes that they will only be spying on "terrorists" is naive.  On top of that I really do not trust some of these government officials who could abuse the information that is collected.  Seems that anyone who doesn't agree with what is going on in the government falls under the 'terrorist' label now.  If you are very heated in a coversation with a friend or family member  about how much you hate George Bush and your house is bugged.....who is to say they cant paint you are a radical, who in the heat of an argument, said you would kill George Bush if given the chance?  Now before you say "The government isnt going to randomly bug peoples houses" You are right they are not......but they are setting up a private citizens network???  How many of you have been in arguments with neighbors?  Instead of calling the cops on you when you get loud on friday night they can call uncle sam and tell them they are suspicious of what you  are doing in the garage late because they heard you say 'F*$& Bush' late one night.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2005, 01:35:09 PM by westkoast »
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Offline WayOutWest

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So what does everyone think about spying?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2005, 01:41:50 PM »
Quote
If only the citizens of the united states could take what the government says and it happend in exactly the way they put it.  Anyone who believes that they will only be spying on "terrorists" is naive.  On top of that I really do not trust some of these government officials who could abuse the information that is collected.  Seems that anyone who doesn't agree with what is going on in the government falls under the 'terrorist' label now.  If you are very heated in a coversation with a friend or family member  about how much you hate George Bush and your house is bugged.....who is to say they cant paint you are a radical, who in the heat of an argument, said you would kill George Bush if given the chance?  Now before you say "The government isnt going to randomly bug peoples houses" You are right they are not......but they are setting up a private citizens network???  How many of you have been in arguments with neighbors?  Instead of calling the cops on you when you get loud on friday night they can call uncle sam and tell them they are suspicious of what you  are doing in the garage late because they heard you say 'F*$& Bush' late one night.
Hitler would be so proud of GW Bush.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
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"It would've endured"

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Offline westkoast

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So what does everyone think about spying?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2005, 11:34:06 AM »
Quote
Quote
If only the citizens of the united states could take what the government says and it happend in exactly the way they put it.  Anyone who believes that they will only be spying on "terrorists" is naive.  On top of that I really do not trust some of these government officials who could abuse the information that is collected.  Seems that anyone who doesn't agree with what is going on in the government falls under the 'terrorist' label now.  If you are very heated in a coversation with a friend or family member  about how much you hate George Bush and your house is bugged.....who is to say they cant paint you are a radical, who in the heat of an argument, said you would kill George Bush if given the chance?  Now before you say "The government isnt going to randomly bug peoples houses" You are right they are not......but they are setting up a private citizens network???  How many of you have been in arguments with neighbors?  Instead of calling the cops on you when you get loud on friday night they can call uncle sam and tell them they are suspicious of what you  are doing in the garage late because they heard you say 'F*$& Bush' late one night.
Hitler would be so proud of GW Bush.
Seriously.  The only thing worse than putting George Bush and his band of dummies in charge of spying on the American public is setting up a private citizens network.  Its bad enough Miss Daniels, the 50 year old lonely b#*$ lady, cant keep her nose out of the neighborhoods business......now she actually is going to think she is a freedom fighter LOL
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rickortreat

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So what does everyone think about spying?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2005, 04:08:57 PM »
It makes me wonder what we think this country is about anymore.  We have an implicit right to privacy as Americans, owning our own property and possessions.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Yet now we have a government that forces the sale of your property to another individual because what he does might generate more revenue for the town.  And, we have a President that thinks its OK to spy on anyone in the United States because some moron thinks someone is a terrorist.  Why is it an impairment to make them get the approval of a court before engageing in wire-tapping, buging, computer hacking, etc.

What has happened to the Fifth Amendment?  

Why hasn't anyone asked Bush what he thinks about this Constitutional Right?  

Aren't these people guilty of treason themselves, violating your privacy?

If someone really is a terrorist, I certainly want them caught, but that doesn't mean I want a camera and microphone installed in just anyone's house so "Big Brother" can spy on us whenever the feel like it.

Big Brother

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So what does everyone think about spying?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2005, 08:21:01 PM »
Personally, I like all this cloak-and-dagger spying stuff.  It's a lot of fun.

Oh.  I wasn't supposed to say that, was I?  

Nothing to see here.  Move along, folks.
 

Offline SPURSX3

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So what does everyone think about spying?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2006, 11:25:49 AM »
Personally I can't see the Government taking on this type of war by having to go get warrants by court order every time they had a suspect in thier sights.  I can understand the fear with having the gov listen in without your knowledge.  However, I don't see this as anything new.  the U.S. has had Echelon and Carnivore in place for years, this is NOT new news, and yes it was around before Bush and operating before Bush.  emails are tracked, converstaions are siphoned for key words and screened.  Frankly, since I am not dealing with any terrorists I really dont worry about what is going on.  My take is that this President or any after him no matter which party he is in needs to be able to protect the American people, and having to wait for a warrant or rangle for a warrant with some liberal PC judge at times is not going to help us.  Big Brother does need to be kept in check to keep it from taking over every single liberty we have - however at the same time - we as the American people need to be able to understand that certain tactics need to be waged to combat certain targets.  We want to live our lives at a certain comfort, we get upset when that comfort is damaged (9/11), but we dont want to do anything to maintain that comfort if it means being a little unsure about anything.  There are problems with the process, but they need to be detailed, not dismissed.  It's not as if I will be thrown into an umarked black sedan becuase I bought Coco-Puffs instead of Corn Flakes.  I for one would like to know who in the United States IS assisting these terrorists and have them stopped, I know that there may be some deviation from this and used for other purposes, does that mean I want the protection we may receive by having to supporter of terror busted to be gone?  No.  I will take the needs of the many over the needs of the few in this case.  
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Offline Joe Vancil

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So what does everyone think about spying?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2006, 12:51:12 PM »
But that's a bit of a slippery slope, don't you think?

Personally, I understand what you're after.  And I understand why you see it as being difficult - specifically due to the possibility of judges who refuse to issue warrants.  But, to me, that means we need to fix the judicial system - not scrap our Constitutional protections.

Given the fact that Americans captured in such a process have rights guaranteed to them by the Constitution, I think a court would have a hard time putting them away for criminal activity that was uncovered by questionable means such as these wiretaps.  Given the fact that I do want such people put away, I want the process to work according to the needs of the courts.

If that means we need to impeach a few judges, so be it.  I'll sacrifice the jobs of a few judges before I rip up the Constitution.


 
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rickortreat

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So what does everyone think about spying?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2006, 04:37:49 PM »
This is a matter of expediency, with our rights being sacrificed on the altar of convenience.

The administration hasn't complained about judges denying them wiretaps.  They're simply bypassing the proceedure so they can spy on whoever they please in contradiction of your rights!

How much time does it take to bring evidence before a judge to justify a wire-tap?  Why is time so critical to the NSA, CIA, etc.  that they can't ask a judge for permission?

Even in instances where time is off the essence, they could put on the wire tap and then get the permission from the court after the fact, or would have to terminate the tap if the judge decided the evidence was lacking.

It's a matter of trust.  I don't trust the Bush administration at all, and feel that I have a very good reason to.  At the same time, I don't want them to be encumbered in their efforts to proctect us, but I do want them to follow the law in doing so.

If there were a legitimate reason for this, I might give them the benefit of the doubt, but they haven't given a reason and took umbrage when someone "blew the whistle on the taps, calling the leak shamefull"  What's shamefull is that this administration has no respect for you or your rights whatsoever, and is using this war as an excuse to take your liberties away!

Just how many Americans are in contact with foreigners, conspiring to bring the country down?  If I knew of one, I'd be the first to call the government in to get the weasel.  Somehow, I don't belive there are that many conspirators within the US working to overthrow our government.  

We've had one attack, and we've invaded two countries in response.  We still haven't captured Bin Laden and as of yet there's been no legitimate explanation as for how three planes took off, disabled their transponders and weren't immediatly intecepted by jets from nearby military bases, standard operating procedure, by the way!

We also have Condoleeza Rice lying saying that no one could have anticipated planes being flown into buildings when the CIA did specifically inform the administration of that threat a short time before 9-11.

Trust is something that needs to be earned, and George Bush has done nothing to earn my trust.  He is either incompetant or he is doing things deliberatly which are not in our best interests.  The budget deficit, trade deficit and the dollar are all going down the tubes, and so is America's prestige and respect in the world.

A premptive attack on an innocent nation has turned us into the bad guys in the worlds eye.  I really want Bush out of office before he makes matters worse, but if that is done, it must be done by the law and not some act of violence.  

If you look a the Patriot act and the language used, seen what the US has done to property rights with their ruling on emminent domain, and now this wire-tapping nonsense, I would say that our rights as US citizens are under a severe assault, not by Moslems dead set on killing us, but by our own inept government.

If our boys can't work within the law, then they should change the law.  But they do not have the right to break our laws in order to do their job.  That makes them criminals, RIGHT!   :nod: