Will Yao ever get an O coach?

[Reality]

If you have continued to endure watching portions of Van Grunty offensive basketball as I have, you know what i mean.  

You Yao Haters may be correct in that he is not the next Bill Russle or Robert Parish yet, but this guy can ball.  Or could ball.  Or could ball much more.

Van Gruntys offense is unwatchable.  Or Patrick Ewings or whomever it is.
Dont want to hear about how TMac is out.  This 70 point crap was going on all the while with TMac in.  Yao will get 18 in one half, 2 in the next.  TMac will go 1-9 in the 1st half, then score 12 points in the last 4 minutes.  

Its the offense, I'm tellin ya.

[westkoast]

He can ball.  I think I can speak for some of the Yao naysayers when I say that it isnt that we think Yao sucks but rather he is not as 'dominating' as the NBA would like to make it seem.  IMO I think he can be alot better than he is if he ditched that passive mentality he has.

He doesnt need a great offensive coach he needs teammates who throw the ball into him each and every play.  Not for him to turn and score but just to cause a shift in the defense.  I doubt JVG is telling his team NOT to go into Yao on every trip.  I think that is something that the PG of the team needs to address.

[Guest_Randy]

But it's NOT just his offense -- it's his defense too!  He should be shooting well above .500 -- he should be averaging 10+ boards per game (notice that Big Ben -- who is really only about 6'9" is averaging more boards than a 7'6" guy?) and he should be leading the league in block shots (he is average 1.9 per game).  

And watch a game sometime -- while JVG is a HORRIBLE offensive coach, he is a very good defensive one.  However, Ming's biggest problem isn't JVG -- it's Yao Ming -- he isn't driven to compete and his conditioning limits his play and gets him in foul trouble because he is usually half a step behind where he should be.  

Yao HAS the potential -- but I don't believe he will ever reach it!

[Reality]

Nope.  Dont agree with either one of your points.  Yao was out of shape and passive.  But this is the 1st summer he kicked back.  Looks much more rested.  Also koast while he was passive, not any more.  In fact he is overly aggressive on too many plays, a result of Van Gruntys caveman offensive offense.

Many defenders are not going for Yaos 1st fake, as he often jukes then turnsaround for the shot.  Thus koasts well founded points of his previous failure to at times simply go up.   However, since defenders now often wait on the 1st move, Yao should occasionally initially turn n go but not so hard.  I have seen time and time again where his vast height advantage easily gives him the clear shot but he rushes it.  Or goes so hard to the hoop he gets nailed for the offensive foul whether he deserves it or not.  A good coach would have him picking his spots and with Yaos versatility he could become top 2-3 center right here and now.

Rockets have zero synchronicity on offense.  Good teamates will *know* when the other is going to shoot or pass and thus position for board/catch and vice versa.  Rockets are 5 complete individuals with no team O concept.  I lay ALL that on Grunty.  Last year he lightened up on his stoopid Caveman O and let the Rockets exceed 100 many times in the stretch run.  As with the Spurs in the RePressavitch years, it was proof positive that exceeding 100 meant victory 95% of the time.  Yes Randy he does coach a good D as did/does Popavitch.  But it wont result in playoff wins until either
 
a) the players ignore him and play O like the Spurs did with Steven Jackson and Stevie Kerr saving Pops arse

or
 
be) Van Grunty himself smells the coffee like Pop did and lets the open flow O operate.  Feeling you!  (extra 570 SoCal radio insider joke)

[Guest_Randy]

Reality,

Why does a 7'6" player need to do a lot of ball faking?  Yao isn't aggressive towards the basket -- he is VERY passive.  He would rather sit outside and shoot than make a strong move to the basket.  At 7'6", he shouldn't NEED a good coach to make him look dominating, should he?  He SHOULD look dominating whenever he gets the ball.  That doesn't translate to wins but you are faulting JVG for the fact that Yao isn't dominating WHEN he has the ball -- you can't fault JVG for that -- that's Yao's fault.  

Nothing changes about what I said:

1)  Yao should been pulling down 12-13 rebounds a LEAST a game -- he's not.  There is a player 9 inches shorter pulling down more boards.

2)  The opposing team should have INCREDIBLE difficulty scoring in the post with Yao patroling it -- but that isn't the case.  Yao is a slow to stop penetration.  He should be leading the league in blocked shots -- he isn't.  

This person you are claiming is "so good" isn't even in the top 10 in ANY category -- and rebounding, block shots and fg% has VERY little to do with JVG's coaching.  Those are categories that are Yao's responsibility -- not JVG's.  

[WayOutWest]

Reality,

Why does a 7'6" player need to do a lot of ball faking?  Yao isn't aggressive towards the basket -- he is VERY passive.  He would rather sit outside and shoot than make a strong move to the basket.  At 7'6", he shouldn't NEED a good coach to make him look dominating, should he?  He SHOULD look dominating whenever he gets the ball.  That doesn't translate to wins but you are faulting JVG for the fact that Yao isn't dominating WHEN he has the ball -- you can't fault JVG for that -- that's Yao's fault.  

Nothing changes about what I said:

1)  Yao should been pulling down 12-13 rebounds a LEAST a game -- he's not.  There is a player 9 inches shorter pulling down more boards.

2)  The opposing team should have INCREDIBLE difficulty scoring in the post with Yao patroling it -- but that isn't the case.  Yao is a slow to stop penetration.  He should be leading the league in blocked shots -- he isn't.  

This person you are claiming is "so good" isn't even in the top 10 in ANY category -- and rebounding, block shots and fg% has VERY little to do with JVG's coaching.  Those are categories that are Yao's responsibility -- not JVG's.

Agreed.  

I know people don't like to hear "I told you so", but I did.

Yao is just not that good.  He will not be great, just good ala Parish.

[Joe Vancil]

Take Shaquille O'Neal or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, put  them far enough away from the basket, and they won't look dominating when they catch the ball, either.

A bigger part of this *IS* coaching than anyone thinks.  Aggressiveness on the court is something that *IS* taught, and no one has ever put that kind of heat on Yao Ming.  Put Ming under Jerry Sloan, and you'll see a more aggressive Yao Ming.  (Might even learn an obscenity or two, as well.)  Put Ming under Phil Jackson, and you'll see a more aggressive Yao Ming.  Put Ming under Paul Silas, and you'll see a more aggressive Yao Ming (and, under Silas, a better rebounder as well).

rebounding, block shots and fg% has VERY little to do with JVG's coaching.

Disagree.  Van Gundy's defensive scheme *IS* going to hurt Ming's shot-blocking and rebounding.  Van Gundy's OFFENSIVE scheme is also going to hurt Ming's rebounding.  And FG% is very much a matter of the offensive game.

While I agree that Ming has underachieved, in my opinion, the underachievement is mostly due to conditioning.  And some of it has to do with the point guards Ming has been teamed with in the past few years.

Put Ming on New Jersey.  Right there, he'll have to get into much better shape in order to play, he'll be a bigger contributor on the boards, and he'll be a bona-fide post threat.  Make Ming a member of Golden State.  Again - better shame, bigger rebounder, post threat.

I think we've only scratched the surface of what Ming can do.
 

[Guest_Randy]

Take Shaquille O'Neal or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, put  them far enough away from the basket, and they won't look dominating when they catch the ball, either.

A bigger part of this *IS* coaching than anyone thinks.  Aggressiveness on the court is something that *IS* taught, and no one has ever put that kind of heat on Yao Ming.  Put Ming under Jerry Sloan, and you'll see a more aggressive Yao Ming.  (Might even learn an obscenity or two, as well.)  Put Ming under Phil Jackson, and you'll see a more aggressive Yao Ming.  Put Ming under Paul Silas, and you'll see a more aggressive Yao Ming (and, under Silas, a better rebounder as well).

rebounding, block shots and fg% has VERY little to do with JVG's coaching.

Disagree.  Van Gundy's defensive scheme *IS* going to hurt Ming's shot-blocking and rebounding.  Van Gundy's OFFENSIVE scheme is also going to hurt Ming's rebounding.  And FG% is very much a matter of the offensive game.

While I agree that Ming has underachieved, in my opinion, the underachievement is mostly due to conditioning.  And some of it has to do with the point guards Ming has been teamed with in the past few years.

Put Ming on New Jersey.  Right there, he'll have to get into much better shape in order to play, he'll be a bigger contributor on the boards, and he'll be a bona-fide post threat.  Make Ming a member of Golden State.  Again - better shame, bigger rebounder, post threat.

I think we've only scratched the surface of what Ming can do.

Umm, Joe, half the time, Yao IS catching the ball inside the post.  

Aggressiveness on the court is something that *IS* taught

Sorry, couldn't disagree more -- you can MOTIVATE an individual but make them more aggressive?  Nope -- not at all.  My son is the most unaggressive person on the face of the earth -- and no matter how hard he tries or how hard people (coaches, myself, etc.) try to motivate him -- he just CAN'T be aggressive.  You might see a more effective Yao Ming under Sloan but you won't see a more aggressive Yao Ming.  And before you start to try and debate it -- you don't have to look ANY farther than Greg Ostertag to see the truth.  IF Ostertag was more aggressive -- he would play more -- but Sloan CAN'T make him more aggressive.

Disagree. Van Gundy's defensive scheme *IS* going to hurt Ming's shot-blocking and rebounding. Van Gundy's OFFENSIVE scheme is also going to hurt Ming's rebounding. And FG% is very much a matter of the offensive game.

JVG's defensive scheme isn't much different than when he coached the Knicks -- he uses the Center position to rotate to penetration in the lane.  The problem is that Yao is SLOW getting to the lane every time.  And foot speed isn't the problem -- it's condition and lack of aggression.  

Put Ming on New Jersey. Right there, he'll have to get into much better shape in order to play, he'll be a bigger contributor on the boards, and he'll be a bona-fide post threat. Make Ming a member of Golden State. Again - better shame, bigger rebounder, post threat.

All we have to do is move Ming to NJ?  Umm, you are ASSUMING that Ming will step and get in better shape and better conditioning!  You CAN'T make that assumption -- I haven't seen ANYTHING that tells me that Yao will push himself to become that kind of player.  Some people need motivation externally (Shaq) -- some have their own personal motivation (Kobe) -- some NEVER respond to motivation and simply amble through life at their own pace -- IMO, Yao IS that kind of personality!

[Reality]

rebounding, block shots and fg% has VERY little to do with JVG's coaching.

Disagree.  Van Gundy's defensive scheme *IS* going to hurt Ming's shot-blocking and rebounding.  Van Gundy's OFFENSIVE scheme is also going to hurt Ming's rebounding.  And FG% is very much a matter of the offensive game.

While I agree that Ming has underachieved, in my opinion, the underachievement is mostly due to conditioning.  And some of it has to do with the point guards Ming has been teamed with in the past few years.

I think we've only scratched the surface of what Ming can do.

Yep.

Last night the Rockets scored 100 points for the 1st time this season.  With or without TMac.  Won by 15.

Yaowser shot 60+ %, scored 25 while boarding 12.
So it was the Hawks.

The Rockets offense was definitely different.
Past couple years the Rockets 100+ have a way better record then -99.