MVP

[Reality]

Assume you can pick including the playoff games up until now.

Do you?

1. Still want Nash

2. Lot of you never did want Nash, ie rt.

3. Still want Shraq?  Others ie Lebron, Amare Stoudamire?

Me I'm picking Tim Dunker.

[Joe Vancil]

I'm sticking with Nash as the MVP.  First of all, it's for the season, not for the playoffs.  Secondly, Nash's play was instrumental in Phoenix going as far as they did.

If anyone's stock increased, it's been that of Amare Stoudemire and Dwyane Wade.

 

[Reality]

I'm sticking with Nash as the MVP.  First of all, it's for the season, not for the playoffs.  Secondly, Nash's play was instrumental in Phoenix going as far as they did.

If anyone's stock increased, it's been that of Amare Stoudemire and Dwyane Wade.

thanks i forgot about DWade.  But to pick Wade over Shaq on the Heat?  Naw can't do that no way.  Also if BullDozing is going to be reallowed ie last nights game and Shaq, look out.

Its for up until now including the playoffs.  Its not just for the season.  This is our pick, not the media lords.

We could add "Who is the Playoff MVP so far".
Duncan and GNob co winners with Duncan #1 if one only.
A Stoudamire.

[westkoast]

I'm sticking with Nash as the MVP.  First of all, it's for the season, not for the playoffs.  Secondly, Nash's play was instrumental in Phoenix going as far as they did.

If anyone's stock increased, it's been that of Amare Stoudemire and Dwyane Wade.

thanks i forgot about DWade.  But to pick Wade over Shaq on the Heat?  Naw can't do that no way.  Also if BullDozing is going to be reallowed ie last nights game and Shaq, look out.

Its for up until now including the playoffs.  Its not just for the season.  This is our pick, not the media lords.

We could add "Who is the Playoff MVP so far".
Duncan and GNob co winners with Duncan #1 if one only.
A Stoudamire.

If you are basing this off playoff performances then its between Wade and Amare since they have been the most dominating players in the playoffs thus far.

Shaq didnt have an MVP type season at all.  He didnt even have a regular Shaq season.  Plus his performance in the playoffs so far hasnt been so hot due to injury/foul trouble.

 

[Guest_Randy]

I'm sticking with Nash as the MVP.  First of all, it's for the season, not for the playoffs.  Secondly, Nash's play was instrumental in Phoenix going as far as they did.

If anyone's stock increased, it's been that of Amare Stoudemire and Dwyane Wade.

thanks i forgot about DWade.  But to pick Wade over Shaq on the Heat?  Naw can't do that no way.  Also if BullDozing is going to be reallowed ie last nights game and Shaq, look out.

Its for up until now including the playoffs.  Its not just for the season.  This is our pick, not the media lords.

We could add "Who is the Playoff MVP so far".
Duncan and GNob co winners with Duncan #1 if one only.
A Stoudamire.

Reality,

I agree, Shaq shouldn't allowed to "bulldoze" but neither should perimeter defenders (like Hamilton and Prince) be allowed to grab and play defense with their hands on the Heat perimeter players.  I was truly amazed how many times perimeter players were grabbed, held and slapped during last nights game -- esp. in the second half -- RIGHT in front of the officials.

I don't have a problem with your insistance that Shaq not be allowed to cheat -- but you might want to mention ALL cheating rather than just Shaq.


As for TD being the MVP, give it up.  Most didn't even pick Phoenix to make the playoffs (even with Nash's arrival), with Nash the Suns managed to surprise EVERYONE (except Amare Stoudamire).  Take Nash away from this team and they don't even MAKE the playoffs!  You can't say that for the Spurs, can you?  

Look at the Spurs line-up even without TD:
PG - Parker, Udrih
SG - Manu, Barry
SF - Bowen, Robinson
PF - Robert Horry, Massenberg
C  - Nazr, Rasho

MVP ISN'T about best player in the league -- it's about being the most important to a team -- the player that meant more to his team than any other player to their team in the league.  IMO, that's Nash not Duncan.  The MVP has gone to players in the past who WEREN'T the best player in the league -- Malone, AI, etc.  If it was simply the best player in the league, MJ would have gotten the MVP award every year -- it's not about being the best player, it's being the most valuable to his squad.

[Reality]

I agree, Shaq shouldn't allowed to "bulldoze" but neither should perimeter defenders (like Hamilton and Prince) be allowed to grab and play defense with their hands on the Heat perimeter players.  I was truly amazed how many times perimeter players were grabbed, held and slapped during last nights game -- esp. in the second half -- RIGHT in front of the officials.

I don't have a problem with your insistance that Shaq not be allowed to cheat -- but you might want to mention ALL cheating rather than just Shaq.


As for TD being the MVP, give it up.  Most didn't even pick Phoenix to make the playoffs (even with Nash's arrival), with Nash the Suns managed to surprise EVERYONE (except Amare Stoudamire).  Take Nash away from this team and they don't even MAKE the playoffs!  You can't say that for the Spurs, can you? 

Look at the Spurs line-up even without TD:
PG - Parker, Udrih
SG - Manu, Barry
SF - Bowen, Robinson
PF - Robert Horry, Massenberg
C  - Nazr, Rasho

MVP ISN'T about best player in the league -- it's about being the most important to a team -- the player that meant more to his team than any other player to their team in the league.  IMO, that's Nash not Duncan.  The MVP has gone to players in the past who WEREN'T the best player in the league -- Malone, AI, etc.  If it was simply the best player in the league, MJ would have gotten the MVP award every year -- it's not about being the best player, it's being the most valuable to his squad.

Good points.
Nazr/Rash at the C spot without Duncan? :eek2:   I think the Spurs take a big dip.
OTOH with Duncan out 10 or so games very impressive last years reg season when Pop allowed run n gun in Dunkers absense.  Your favorite Rash had some excellent games in that stretch.
Along with Rose. :rolleyes:

Posted by Randy: Feb 20 2004, 05:50 PM  
 "Just another day for Pop and Rose in paradise! Pop is crazy -- the Spurs NEED Rose to win another championship -- on a "soft" team they need a hardnosed player (although Bowen is that as well) who will put it all on the line for the squad. Horry is a VERY smart and crafty ball player -- that's his greatest gift but he is getting old and Pop had better used him in such a way that Horry still has a lot of gas in the tank come playoff time. However, I think once you get on Pop's bad list, it's really tough to get off it -- and that may come back to bite him."  <Italics and underline added.

Premptive calm down.  The Nazr trade has been fantastic for 2005 i concur.  Different seasons different needs.


As has been my Reality stance since Day 1 is that all reffing would be fair.  It isn't, my reference to Shaqs BullDozing is that it completely changes the outcome of the Pistons game.  However, the Heat players competely stepped up last night.  Butler, Damon Jones.  So even tho Shaq was Dozing that was a sold Heat game.  Just that when Shaq is not allowed to Doze, in turn the Pistons gain a huge advantage.  I'm banking on Shaq not being allowed to BullDoze on Sat combined with the Piston guards getting the frontline way more shots.  Especially Sheed.  

MVP will always have the endless definition battle.  I lean much more towards best player.  Even so I think Dunkers presense on the Spurs is just as important as Nashs to Phx.

[westkoast]

"As has been my Reality stance since Day 1 is that all reffing would be fair. It isn't, my reference to Shaqs BullDozing is that it completely changes the outcome of the Pistons game. However, the Heat players competely stepped up last night. Butler, Damon Jones. So even tho Shaq was Dozing that was a sold Heat game. Just that when Shaq is not allowed to Doze, in turn the Pistons gain a huge advantage. I'm banking on Shaq not being allowed to BullDoze on Sat combined with the Piston guards getting the frontline way more shots. Especially Sheed.

MVP will always have the endless definition battle. I lean much more towards best player. Even so I think Dunkers presense on the Spurs is just as important as Nashs to Phx. "

He got away with quite a bit of that lower his shoulder and go move he likes to do so much......only to have them call foul #5 on him on a play that was perfectly legal.  It was the 5-6 other times he completly dropped his shoulder and moved Ben Wallace.  Although I do have to say that Ben looked like he was acting a little bit on some of them.  He is not that weak and not that light to fly that much.

[Reality]

He got away with quite a bit of that lower his shoulder and go move he likes to do so much......only to have them call foul #5 on him on a play that was perfectly legal.  It was the 5-6 other times he completly dropped his shoulder and moved Ben Wallace.

Foul call #5 on Shaq was a complete farce by the refs as they knew they had hozed the Pistons the entire game vs Shaq up until then.  That is why Brown, Billups, even Shaq himself were smiling.  It was a joke.  The game was well over by that time.

Refs used to pull the same crap when he was a Laker.  I'm not interested in revisiting those days.

Concur that Ben is sometimes flopping to attempt/recieve the offensive foul call.

My stance on flopping remains the same.

[Guest_Randy]

Reality, YOU keep bringing this crap back up -- WHO said ANYTHING about Rose?  You did!

As for this:

Posted by Randy: Feb 20 2004, 05:50 PM
"Just another day for Pop and Rose in paradise! Pop is crazy -- the Spurs NEED Rose to win another championship -- on a "soft" team they need a hardnosed player (although Bowen is that as well) who will put it all on the line for the squad. Horry is a VERY smart and crafty ball player -- that's his greatest gift but he is getting old and Pop had better used him in such a way that Horry still has a lot of gas in the tank come playoff time. However, I think once you get on Pop's bad list, it's really tough to get off it -- and that may come back to bite him." <Italics and underline added.

Nazr gives the Spurs the SAME thing Rose did -- warrior like attitude, hustle and hard-nosed D -- but he gives the Spurs a LOT more as well -- Nazr gives them BETTER team defense, better shotblocking (Rose never did that), better offensive rebounding and he moves without the ball a LOT better than Rose ever did.  The only thing that Nazr doesn't do as well is shoot outside -- Rose is a better outside shooter but keep in mind that, to date with the Spurs, Nazr isn't even LOOKING to be offensively minded.  Rose ALWAYS looked for his shot -- even if his teammates had a better one!

You need to DROP this insane argument of Rose vs. Nazr -- the fact is that since TD plays PF (and Rose CAN'T play center), Nazr is a MUCH better fit for the Spurs than Rose ever was (the fact that he has taken Rasho's starting job should give you HALF a clue on that fact -- Rose never had a chance in taking Rasho's starting).  There isn't ANYONE who agrees with you on this board and yet you STILL bring up this argument!  Let it rest -- we all know you can't possibly admit you are wrong so just drop it!   :moon:  

[Reality]

I see you've gone PMS'l again.  I don't think i can be anymore sensitive.

"Premptive calm down. The Nazr trade has been fantastic for 2005 i concur. Different seasons different needs."

I see that did a lot of good.  

"Nazr has done more for the Spurs then Rose ever did." :rofl:  :rofl:
Read your own quote on Rose.  Then look at his role in two Spurs rings.  
Then drop it.
No one agrees with my stance on Nazr that after the trade he should be given time to see how he fits and that he may well be a big help in the Spurs title run?  Simply isn't true.  Nazr is playing a good role in the Spurs run.

Anywho do you care to relate anymore to the MVP threads points?

[Guest_Randy]

I see you've gone PMS'l again.  I don't think i can be anymore sensitive.

"Premptive calm down. The Nazr trade has been fantastic for 2005 i concur. Different seasons different needs."

I see that did a lot of good.  

"Nazr has done more for the Spurs then Rose ever did." :rofl:  :rofl:
Read your own quote on Rose.  Then look at his role in two Spurs rings.  
Then drop it.
No one agrees with my stance on Nazr that after the trade he should be given time to see how he fits and that he may well be a big help in the Spurs title run?  Simply isn't true.  Nazr is playing a good role in the Spurs run.

Anywho do you care to relate anymore to the MVP threads points?

Reality -- you are SUCH an IDIOT!!!

Answer this -- WHO brought Rose into this thread -- YOU did!!!  Why did you bring Rose into the thread?  He has ZERO to do with ANYTHING ANYONE was talking about!!!  

You CONTINUE to want to REHASH this argument OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN!  

You know, this board is sucking wind -- and HALF the reason it's sucks so badly is that you turn EVERY stupid stinking post into a tirade about the Lakers (or lately Rose and his vital importance in the Spurs championships).  I'm tired of it!!!

[Reality]

Given your recent antiRose posts, putting these direct Rose quotes up is indeed uncomfortable for you.

To this current posts direct theme, using your logic of how Tim Duncan can't be the MVP because of how the Spurs would do with Rash/Nazr.... I refferred to last season when the Spurs were indeed without Duncan and with Rash/Rose.

Logical.