Author Topic: Who is the biggest disappointment at each position  (Read 1168 times)

Guest_Randy

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Who is the biggest disappointment at each position
« on: January 13, 2005, 12:28:59 PM »
jn got me to thinking about this topic by talking about the Kandiman -- of course, Rasho would also be in that boat as well.  But would anyone like to take a shot at choosing the most disappointing players at their positions?

PG -
SG -
SF -
PF -
C  -

Offline Ted

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Who is the biggest disappointment at each position
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2005, 12:29:54 PM »
PG: Carlos Arroyo (now rumored to be on the trading block)
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

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Guest_Randy

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Who is the biggest disappointment at each position
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2005, 12:32:49 PM »
Ted, you can't be serious, can you?  He isn't that bad -- he just isn't getting along with Sloan and doesn't like Sloan's sets.  If I were Sloan, I'd see if Toronto wanted to pull a trade.

Offline Laker Fan

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Who is the biggest disappointment at each position
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2005, 12:39:29 PM »
No, I think he's that bad this year Randy. We all know how stifling Sloan's offense is to creativity and so perhaps Arroyo is being somewhat affected it by it, but he nevertheless is not even functioning well within that framework let alone trying to be more effective with his very good passing skills, he dribbles waaaay too much and seems unwilling or unable to find the open man and has fallen in love with teh perimeter where he used to have a decent little slashing ability against teams with smallish frontcourts. There is NOTHING about his game that hasn't markedly deteriorated this year. I think his success in the college play Olympics made him think he is something he is not, a franchise type point guard that the team needs to revolve around, that will never happen in a Jerry Sloan coached system.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 12:40:29 PM by Laker Fan »
Dan

Offline Ted

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Who is the biggest disappointment at each position
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2005, 01:22:20 PM »
Quote
I think his success in the college play Olympics made him think he is something he is not, a franchise type point guard that the team needs to revolve around, that will never happen in a Jerry Sloan coached system . . .
. . . unless you're John Stockton.
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

Guest_Randy

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Who is the biggest disappointment at each position
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2005, 02:11:27 PM »
Quote
Quote
I think his success in the college play Olympics made him think he is something he is not, a franchise type point guard that the team needs to revolve around, that will never happen in a Jerry Sloan coached system . . .
. . . unless you're John Stockton.
Ted,

I think you misunderstood what Dan was saying -- he wasn't saying that a point guard couldn't excel in Sloan's system, he was saying that Arroyo (and the type of point guard that he is) will never excel in Sloan's system.  IMO, this is a LOT of the same problem that Tony Parker has had in Pop's system.  When Pop insists on his typical offense (dump into TD), Parker REALLY struggles in that set because it primarily turns him into a jump shooter (something Parker isn't) but when Pop allows movement in the offense (and allows Parker to create), then Parker has success.  I think that's the same with Arroyo -- I think he needs to be able to "create" -- a Marbury kind of PG rather than a PG who is going to excel in a "set" system.

Offline ziggy

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Who is the biggest disappointment at each position
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2005, 02:24:13 PM »
My take, in order

PG  -  Carlos Arroyo, Sam Cassell, Jason Terry
SG  -  Latrell Sprewell, Brent Barry, Derek Anderson
SF  -  Vince Carter, Carmello Anthony, Tim Thomas
PF  -  Kwame Brown, Kenyon Martin, Rasheed Wallace
C  -  Theo Ratliff, Samuel Dalembert, Eddie Curry
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AA Mil

Offline Ted

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Who is the biggest disappointment at each position
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2005, 02:51:05 PM »
Quote
I think that's the same with Arroyo -- I think he needs to be able to "create" -- a Marbury kind of PG rather than a PG who is going to excel in a "set" system.
The only place Arroyo would excel the way he's been playing is on an asphault court in a three-on-three tournament with two seven-foot shotblocker teammates and a three-foot diameter hoop.

He has been a sieve on defense, and his O game right now is dribble dribble, ignore the cutter, dribble dribble, ignore Jerry yelling at him to start the play, dribble dribble, look at the shot clock, dribble dribble, jack up a J with a hand in his face, lose his guy on the break, give up a lay-up. It's not Jerry Sloan's fault Arroyo has sucked. Jerry's offense has always been a great place for any kind of guard to excel, as long as they're willing to let things come to them through the offense. Carlos Arroyo IS NOT Stephon Marbury or Baron Davis, even though he thinks he is right now.
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

Offline Laker Fan

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Who is the biggest disappointment at each position
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2005, 03:29:16 PM »
Actually Ted, I think we're fairly close on our assessment of Arroyo, I wasn't knocking Sloan, I was knocking Arroyo's ability to exist within the framework of Sloan's system. Your statement that he is not a Marbury or Davis-type guard is dead on the money, although I think he has that potential in a different more freewheeling offense.

I think he developed a rather over-inflated opinion of himself after the Olympics and has been looking develop imself along the line a Marbury or perhaps a Steve Nash, and THAT is where he has come into conflict with Sloan. No way you can compare him to Stockton, he is not the passer, nor does he possess the court vision of a John Stockton, who does. But Stockton was not a terribly creative guard either, primarily because he did not have to be, their version of the pick and roll, as predictable as the sun rising every morning, was virtually undefendable, if they needed creativity, they were it trouble, but they always had Hornicek to bail them out, that and Stockton's uncanny ability to find the open man. But it didn't mean they didn't live and die by set plays, they did. Arroyo wants to create, indeed, he may really have tha potential, but this is not the offense to do it in, maybe if Kirilenko was back, but not now.

I can't explain his defense, it is just simply non-existent.
Dan