Some perspective on the brawl.

[jn]

Interesting article.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...=bayless/041124

[westkoast]

Good read.  The writer of the article pretty much see's it the way I see it.    Ron Artest was in the wrong, no doubt about that.  People are taking this to a whole new level tho. To me, Artest is the whipping boy for those who are sick of seeing uneducated men make so much money while they slave away at their boring job.
 

[SPURSX3]

Good read.  The writer of the article pretty much see's it the way I see it.    Ron Artest was in the wrong, no doubt about that.  People are taking this to a whole new level tho. To me, Artest is the whipping boy for those who are sick of seeing uneducated men make so much money while they slave away at their boring job.

I still say i would have slugged him too. and i would have done what s jackson did or j oneal did.  This guy is right this is just about artest the whipping boy.  stern has to make a point and artest is the new dennis rodman.  

[Laker Fan]

That's total nonsense, the cat on floor is fair game because he is on the floor!?!?!
If O'Neal had pulled a gun and shot him because he was on the floor would it have been OK because he was fair game? That is the stupidest, most inane line of reasing I have ever heard in my life!!!!!!!!

For O'Neal to take a running start and attack some who was completely defenseless like he did and have anyone justify it because "he was on the floor and thus fair game" says more about society than I think any of us realize and to me it is a frightening thing to consider.

This is a very pathetic article IMO, Artest the whipping boy, give me just a small break!!!

[westkoast]

That's total nonsense, the cat on floor is fair game because he is on the floor!?!?!
If O'Neal had pulled a gun and shot him because he was on the floor would it have been OK because he was fair game? That is the stupidest, most inane line of reasing I have ever heard in my life!!!!!!!!

For O'Neal to take a running start and attack some who was completely defenseless like he did and have anyone justify it because "he was on the floor and thus fair game" says more about society than I think any of us realize and to me it is a frightening thing to consider.

This is a very pathetic article IMO, Artest the whipping boy, give me just a small break!!!

Artest is a whipping boy for people frustrated that someone like him makes millions while they dont have the same luxuries as him.  Those two guys stepped to him on the floor.  Not just one, but two.  Anyone who doesnt think that one fat he clocked in the face wasnt 'stepping up' then maybe you are a little out of touch with the younger generation.  He def was ready to fight and his buddy was right there to back him up.  He is the whipping boy for the media and fans frustrated that ignorant guys make millions because of a god given talent......why else would this be covered 10x as much as Mike Tyson telling people hes going to kill them, calling a woman a whore and said he will ______, and things like that.  I can name alot worse sports moments than Artest socking one guy in the head after the guy punched him in the head and him socking one of two fans who walked onto the court and stepped up to him.

You have two fans step up to you as you walk away from the stands when the Palace is on fire and you are telling me after that riot jumped off that you would just try to talk it out?  They stepped towards Artest like they wanted to fight.  We arent talking about JOneal, hes a moron.  We are talking about Artest.  People were going crazy and were VERY drunk.  How was Artest to know how drunk those two fans were or what they were going to do?  If two drunk guys stepped up to me like that at the bar best believe I would swing first and ask questions second.

[Laker Fan]

It's easy to say I am out of touch with the younger generation 'Koast, and I even understand your why you feel that way, it is inherent in what is wrong with so many of the “younger generation”. You see, the problem with that statement, is it is dismissive of a larger problem you of the "younger generation" not only don't see, but by excusing the actions of Ron Artest, you perpetuate and exacerbate, that of open and violent confrontation to achieve whatever end you desire. It is an issue that goes back millennia; on a governmental level the result is war and innocent people getting killed, on a social level the result is what happened in Detroit, and regardless of what may you think it is not a generational thing, George Bush is my generation and according to you he was unjustified in attacking Iraq which he perceived as a threat, and yet the younger generation, in this case Ron Artest, can see a perceived potential threat, overreact and cold cock the guy and he is justified, you could read this cats mind and just know “he def was ready to fight” but a government cannot read a dictators mind and know “he def was ready to fight”, to justify a war, do you see the conflict? There may be a pretty large difference in your mind between the to but to me the relaxation of social mores is directly reflected in both situations, unprovoked violence is wrong. In my day we said the same thing you are telling me now, the older generation is out of touch, we were wrong then, you are wrong now, being in or out of touch in no way negates the vileness of what happened at that game and in no way justifies Ron Artest cold cocking a guy who had as yet made no attempt to assault him. You say this cat was walking up on and fronting up Artest, very well, maybe he was maybe he wasn’t, but you conveniently overlook 2 facts, 1) Ron Artest was walking TOWARD the fan as well, closing the distance between them, and 2) Ron Artest was out of control and chose to invite the confrontation rather than walk away.

What Jermaine O’Neal did was a crime beyond the pale, it was nothing more that absolutely unprovoked assault, he should have been arrested on the spot, he had no reason whatsoever to do what he did, and if he had not slipped and lost some of the force packed into a 25 foot running start haymaker, he very well could have crippled a man who had done absolutely nothing to him, or for that matter, the teammate O’Neal was ostensibly “protecting”.

The same with Stephan Jackson, coming to the defense of a teammate who was already committing the sin of going into the stands to attack (the wrong) fan is admirable loyalty to your teammate?!?!?! Defending someone who was doing the indefensible is a trait we should respect?!?!?!

No ‘Koast, it’s not that Ron Artest makes millions, not in my mind, he is a punk, a coward, and a thug, and until that Friday night I would not have put O’Neal in that same category, and to me, rich or poor such actions are wrong.

And I will state again, the fan deserved to get his stupid sorry butt arrested for getting down on the playing floor his own self, and the idiot that threw the beer should still be in jail for it, but no way does this justify the player action, particularly with regard to the fans on the floor.

[westkoast]

Who is excusing Ron Artest?  I certainly am not.  In fact I've said the exact opposite.  He is a moron, I think ive said that 4-5 times on this board already.  I dont feel the need to keep saying this each and everytime, to me him being an idiot is a given.  Everyone knows it.  Why bother saying it each and everytime?  I was putting into perspective a different view on the situation.  Those guys WERE going to try to do something to Artest.  You dont step up to someone like that just to talk or yell at them.  I was at a party when the whole thing went down and all the guys in the room at the time said the same thing 'That fat guy had liquid courage, he wanted to scrap'

What I am saying is that this is being blown out of proportion (or should I say perspective) and its only being pinned on one guy.  When in fact it was a number of people who made all this happen but doesnt seem to be getting the same amount of attention.  Ben Wallace is not recieving any flack for getting the fans rowdy in the first place.  For anyone to deny that he is the reason the fans started to get rowdy in the first place would be a joke to say the least.  Very little is being said about controlling alcohol at the stadium.  Where was the cut off for drinks?  A few blurbs are said about security, but not nearly as much as Ron Artest punching a guy who just socked him in the head.  The Detroit organization is only getting covered when they make statements trying to push any kind of blame as far away from them as possible.   Theres not even a fraction of coverage on any of those compared to everything just being Ron Artest.  Ron Artest did not make Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson act foolish, yet the media will have you think he led them to do that like his two little brothers.  Ron Artest did not foul Ben Wallace hard enough to get the most popular player in that building to react like he had been slapped across the face.  Ron Artest also did not hit anyone in the stands who had not already hit him....but the way the media covers that have some people thinking the opposite.  Just ask around.  The media is blowing Ron Artest's hand in this to a whole next plateau while the other people (Detroit, the fans, Ben Wallace, Jermaine O Neal, and Stephen Jackson) are barely talked about.   There are plenty of people riding that because of this "younger generation" and how they act.  On top of that the same people who love to ride Ron Artest and make him the poster boy of how older American's BELIEVE the younger generation is......they dont hold their fellow OLDER generation reppers to the same standards they want these players to be held too.  Spending $60 does not give you the right to act like a rude, crude, unrefined, wild baboon.  It does not give you the right to shout racial slurs, call players names like this is the sandbox in elementry school, or toss things ANYWHERE in the building.  Why is all the talk of Ron Artest overshadowing everything else, like how fans have got just as bad as some of these players they hate.  No one is talking about how rude fans have been getting progressively worse in Arena's coast to coast.  I myself can tell you that I've been to Staples Center 15 or so times and every other time there has been the same drunken moron fans yelling shit, ruining the game for others, and letting the alcohol take over for them.

 Ive heard Ron Artest being talked about 10x as much as anything else.....we know hes an idiot.  We know he has a temper.  We know he made a bad decision.  Why is he the ONLY person being covered?  I feel because the media and alot of American's love to have a whipping boy.   Its easier to blame it on one guy.  Its good water cooler talk (did you hear what Ron Artest did).  Makes a nice blurb for ESPN guys on sportscenter, makes an easy headline in the sports section, makes a nice quick to the point introduction to an article in a magazine.   Ron Artest WAS NOT the sole reason why all this happend.  It was a combination of many things, all of which are taking the back seat in the stretch limo...with the Ron Artest story all the way in the front seat.  Ron Artest should be getting covered more than everyone else.   The amount he is getting covered more than the others involved is a bit much IMO.  Where is the coverage talking about how ridiciulous the security is at the palace?  We all are subject to searching and the media is scaring people into thinking that terrorists can blow up sporting events, yet Detroit doesnt care.   Where is the coverage on how fans have been getting worse and worse over the years because they dont get checked by security.  Where is the coverage on how alcohol is really ruining the enjoyment of pro sports for famillies?  Where is the coverage on how alcohol is putting fans and players at risk?  If anyone should be getting ALOT of coverage it should be Jermaine O'Neal.  He had NO REASON to hit that guy whatsoever.   This incident brought up alot of problems yet the only problem that seems to be talked about is Ron Artest's temper and his lack of a functioning brain.

Ron Artest is a whipping boy for something that involved multiple players, fans,  and an organization.  He is easy to single out.  He's your "typical" younger generation punk that makes too much money for his own good.

[Laker Fan]

Ron Artest went into the stands, had he not this would never have gone down like it did, and he most certainly did too hit an innocent fan who had not hit him first, and it was the wrong fan, he escalated a contollable situation because he is a foul tempered puke, end of story.

No way I excuse the actions of the fans, throw the idiot drunken punks in jail for what they did and lose the key.

I agree, O'Neal, Jackson, and Wallace are not getting near the play that Artest is getting, but then, not one of them has the anwhere remotely near the reputation this punk has for this kind of behaviour and hence his well deserved extra press coverage, and so rightly then they aren't getting near the coverage.

Also, I don't know waht channels you are watching but I have heard plenty of discussions of the Pistons lack of security and their responsibility for this mess as result of it.

[jn]

Dan, koast, regarding the lack of security did you see who the first person to get in between Artest and fat man? It was a CLOWN!! Literally!!  Talk about a surreal..


Also what has everyone learned from this?  Well let's see.  A couple nights later 'Sheed and Pistons assistant Gar Heard get themselves thrown out.  Plus last night's broadcast of the Wolves/Kings featured some clear audio of a King's fan calling Wally a "flocking kitty".    

 

[Guest_Randy]

Plus last night's broadcast of the Wolves/Kings featured some clear audio of a King's fan calling Wally a "flocking kitty

I suppose you wanted the fan to lie?  

You know, UNTIL the NBA takes a stand against fans to declare what is allowable at games, this kind of stuff is not only going to happen but continue to escalate!  Right now, a fan can scream obscenities, throw things onto the court or at players and be an idiot and little to anything will happen to him.  It's pretty obvious, at this point, that arenas are NOT going to police themselves -- they don't want to be bothered with this kind of stuff -- but what is going to happen when a player is seriously injured by something thrown onto the court or a fan comes onto the court (or the bench) with some kind of a weapon (knife, etc.) and really hurts a player.  IMO, I think it's going to take this kind of incident for the NBA to actually do something -- right now they care more about money then they do the players.

But the problem is, I don't want to take my son to a game where fans are screaming obscenities at players.  I don't want to take my son to a game where I'm paying $75 bucks apiece to put up with drunks in the stands -- WHY would I want that?  I take my kids to school everyday so that they don't have to listen to that kind of language on a regular basis -- so you think that I'm going to spend that kind of money just to go see an NBA game in person?

Seattle had a pretty good atmosphere at the games but, IMO, that had a LOT to do with the fact that they weren't a contender so their fans weren't quite as "rabid" -- contending seems to do something to fans -- or at least some of them (perhaps of the bandwagonning variety).  

At this point, I'm not sure when I'll ever see another NBA game.  I don't mind dropping that kind of money every now and then but I want it to be a great night for my son -- and right now there are a LOT of arenas around the NBA that I WOULDN'T take my son to!