Pippen retires after 17 year career

[Ted]

You ride Pip as the reason the Bulls made it to the playoffs -- if that's the case, who got Utah to the playoffs last year?  It wasn't a player, IMO, it was a COACH -- I would contend the same thing with Chicago -- it was FAR more PJ than it was Pip who got the Bulls to the playoffs without MJ.

Randy, you really had what appeared to be a cogent, well-thought-out post going there. You had it going, and then you lost it all . . .

Randy, the Jazz didn't make the playoffs last season.

 :rofl:  

[Ted]

You fail to also take note that Pip had PJ as a coach -- PJ is a MASTER at making players look FAR better than they are.

Okay, I take it back. Your post was lame from the first line.

If PJ is such a god, why hasn't he been able to win with two of top six players in the league the last two seasons? PJ is a great coach, and much of his greatness comes from being fortunate enough to be the guy to coach such players as MJ, Pippen, Shaq and Kobe. And when his superstar players start to lose it, he becomes quite like the other "good" coaches around the league. Frankly, I put him roughly on the same level as Sloan, too. But he is no master, IMO.

"I like Elliott a LOT better than I do Pip."

No kidding? I couldn't tell. :rolleyes:

Question for you: Who is the guy you think takes Pippen's place at #50?

[Ted]

 

Now the Bulls supporting cast (the players other than MJ and Pip) were good enough to take an average guy like Pippen to the 7th game against the Knicks? No, I'm afraid not. The Bulls were two great players with a cast of supporting role players. Pippen showed me a lot when he led that team that far (the last-shot tantrum was ultra-lame though). If you don't see it that way, that's cool.

And Pippen won 6 rings because of Jordan.  So there!

And Elliott won his all by himself.  :nod:  

[Guest_Randy]

You fail to also take note that Pip had PJ as a coach -- PJ is a MASTER at making players look FAR better than they are.

Okay, I take it back. Your post was lame from the first line.

If PJ is such a god, why hasn't he been able to win with two of top six players in the league the last two seasons? PJ is a great coach, and much of his greatness comes from being fortunate enough to be the guy to coach such players as MJ, Pippen, Shaq and Kobe. And when his superstar players start to lose it, he becomes quite like the other "good" coaches around the league. Frankly, I put him roughly on the same level as Sloan, too. But he is no master, IMO.

"I like Elliott a LOT better than I do Pip."

No kidding? I couldn't tell. :rolleyes:

Question for you: Who is the guy you think takes Pippen's place at #50?

Ted,

You are right, the Jazz did not make the playoffs but, IMO before Harpring went down, there were on course to have that opportunity.  

As for PJ's not being able to take the Lakers, no excuses, but injury is part of the game -- Kobe was injured two years ago, that was obvious.  This year Malone is down -- anyone who doesn't think that a healthy Malone doesn't make a difference must have missed the impact that Malone had against the Spurs before going down.  You are trying to put a cape on Pip and frankly he just doesn't fly -- he MIGHT be able to leap around a building but he certainly isn't going to leap over one.  Pip is a legit star -- but he isn't a superstar, that was MJ.  Pip belongs in the "Robin" league -- a league full of sidekicks -- important sidekicks sure, like Elliott, but not able to lead the league himself.

Pip still had a team of solid players who worked together via a very good coach -- and when he checked himself out of the game, did the Bulls still win without him?  

"I like Elliott a LOT better than I do Pip."

No kidding? I couldn't tell. 

And you forgot to mention that you obviously like Pip a lot better than Elliott!  

[Ted]

Actually, as a citizen and a person, I like Elliott a lot better. I WAS a fan of Pip once, before he pouted on the bench at the end of that game. I haven't liked him since.

I base my opinion solely on his record, on what he achieved and how he played. Pippen could take over a game defensively like no other player I've ever seen. He practically won the Charles Smith game all by himself. Man that was amazing.

[westkoast]

Actually, as a citizen and a person, I like Elliott a lot better. I WAS a fan of Pip once, before he pouted on the bench at the end of that game. I haven't liked him since.

I base my opinion solely on his record, on what he achieved and how he played. Pippen could take over a game defensively like no other player I've ever seen. He practically won the Charles Smith game all by himself. Man that was amazing.

Ditto.  I don't really like Pippen.  I respect his skills and what he did for the Bulls/Blazers but I dont like him.  Nothing made me more happy than watching him run his mouth at Kobe for half a game, only to have Kobe cross him over and break his ankles followed by Kobe saying 'What now b#$%^'.  I actually have been a fan of Shawn Elliot.  Thought he was an excellent player, a good comentator, and a great guy off the court.  Just dont feel he is as good as Pippen.  We can play the what if game all night, what if Elliot was with Mike yadda yadda.  The accomplishments on the hardwood say otherwise.

[Reality]

Had Pippens Blazers not have combo choked/been fixed out vs Lakers it would vastly solidify the pro Pippen peoples top 50 stance.  But they did choke/fix.  Furthermore while I agree Ted that Tomjanovitch did not use him correctly, he pulled a stunt that cost Hou a playoff game that was as ghastly as his quit scenario with the Bulls -MJ.

My own take is that he was fantastic with Jordan.  By that i mean he was fantastic on his own with Jordan -if that makes sense.  His 7'1" wingspan gave him incredible defensive space coverage.  Minus Jordan.....sorry.

[westkoast]

Had Pippens Blazers not have combo choked/been fixed out vs Lakers it would vastly solidify the pro Pippen peoples top 50 stance.  But they did choke/fix.  Furthermore while I agree Ted that Tomjanovitch did not use him correctly, he pulled a stunt that cost Hou a playoff game that was as ghastly as his quit scenario with the Bulls -MJ.

My own take is that he was fantastic with Jordan.  By that i mean he was fantastic on his own with Jordan -if that makes sense.  His 7'1" wingspan gave him incredible defensive space coverage.  Minus Jordan.....sorry.

Exactly.  If the Blazers would have won Pippen would be a top 20 player.  Since his team couldn't score to save their lives he's not even considered top 50 by most of the board.

Pippen in Houston was a joke.  Tom didnt use Clyde well either.

[WayOutWest]

I knew being away from the board would lower the IQ dramatically around here.

How can you compare Pippen and Elliot, that's like comparring Bird/Worthy to Aguire/Horry.  Sure all those guys helped their teams tremendously durring thier title runs but anyone with half a b-ball brain knows the HUGE difference between players like Bird/Worthy/Pippen and Elliot/Aguire/Horry.

Pippen was a tremendous player and the ONLY reason Portland even threatened the Lakers in 2000.  He is arguably the greatest SF to ever play the game.  Baylor/Bird had NOTHING on Pippen when you take into account BOTH ends of the court.  Pippen is the ONLY player I have ever seen put the clamps on Magic.  Magic treated MJ like a JV girls b-ball player when he tried to D up the Magic man, Pippen came in an pulled the Bulls arse out of the fire for 3 games.  

As much as dislike the man, no respect for him as a person, I cannot deny his abilities and accomplishments.  Stop with the silly "what if's" already.

[Lurker]

:hail:


However, Elliot is still better.  So there.   :alcohol:  :alcohol:  :alcohol:

 :up:

 

[SPURSX3]

:hail:


However, Elliot is still better.  So there.   :alcohol:  :alcohol:  :alcohol:

 :up:

yeah pip bites, manu will be better after he gets as much time as pip to play.   B)


pip one of the greatest ever? :crazy:    

[SPURSX3]

:hail:


However, Elliot is still better.  So there.   :alcohol:  :alcohol:  :alcohol:

 :up:

yeah pip bites, manu will be better after he gets as much time as pip to play.   B)


pip one of the greatest ever? :crazy:

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  

[westkoast]

:hail:


However, Elliot is still better.  So there.   :alcohol:  :alcohol:  :alcohol:

 :up:

yeah pip bites, manu will be better after he gets as much time as pip to play.   B)


pip one of the greatest ever? :crazy:

You can name 50 people who should be above Pippen on the top 50 list?

And before you make the list, Vinny Del Negro and Avery Johnson do not qualify.