PhillyArena Forums
PhillyArena Community => Philadelphia 76ers => Topic started by: RickyPryor on November 12, 2009, 10:31:47 AM
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Mind you, as a Philadelphian, I find anything 'mediocre' to be unacceptable. And so, to that end, I cannot tolerate our new head coach - Eddie Jordan. Mr. not-even-mediocre.
The Sixers have been completely average these last two seasons. Get excited all you want about Lou Will's offense; Speights' highlights (on offense); flashes of Iggy, etc etc You're still left with mediocrity.
Ok. That we all know.
But what we DO have is youth, energy, athleticism. It is those qualities that he needed to come in here and harness and use to our advantage. "Make the most of what you got", as they say.
The NBA is famous for tolerating overpaid, pampered, offense-only-minded "talent". And so when you are lucky enough to oversee a team with all that youth and energy, the logical approach - in my mind - is to play more ferociously on defense than every other team out there. Crash the boards with urgency. Hustle plays that the other teams' vets just aren't willing to make.
That's the ONLY way we win with a team like ours. We don't have half the talent necessary to compete otherwise. And no other team plays the way I describe for 82; they just don't.
So what have we here? What wise, veteran coach can we bring in here to implement such an obvious game plan? Hmmm...hey, I know! How 'bout EDDIE JORDAN? He of the 230-288 career record! HE can do it!!
Okee doke. So let's see what we've got.
Well, he spent the entire training camp 'perfecting' the Princeton offense. Ok, I said at the time, I'll buy in. Why not. Get everyone involved...keep moving...use that athleticism. Fine.
But what was he doing to prepare his eager squad for the other 70% of the game? Ya know, rebounding and defense?
And this is where I have issues.
Big ones.
Night in and night out I find myself yelling, "WHY DO WE HAVE NO REBOUNDERS IN THE GAME???" What jackass would leave us exposed like that? Jesus - I want TWO rebounders in there at all times. Yet, I'm forever seeing a combo of, like, Speights and Thad in there as our "Bigs". Maybe even Kapono. NO WONDER OUR LEADING REBOUNDER AVERAGES 7 REBOUNDS PER GAME!!
Eddie: get your head out of your ass. THE most important thing in basketball is HAVING the ball. NOTHING is more important than rebounding. It ends the other team?s possession, and begins our own.
1. We are giving up FIVE more points per game than we did last year.
2. Opponents FG% is up from last year.
3. We are grabbing 1.5 less boards and giving up 1 more. Our offensive rebounds are down 2.5! (Inexcusable for a team with such youthful, athletic energy)
4. Your ingenious Princeton offense scores one single basket more than we did last year. Two. Points. (It's actually yielding one less shot attempt.)
Goddamn Carney shoots 35% and grabs pretty much no rebounds. Yet I seem to see him in there all the time. You sit ELTON GODDAMN BRAND for entire quarters. He's a 20/10 guy, for Christ sake! (Is he still? I dunno. How can anyone know with those minutes played.)
We struggled to beat the Nets last week; and eked one out against them again last night. You had to know it killed Eddie to go to Sam in the 4th when Lopez - of all people - was destroying us (23/14 on the night for a 13/8 career guy). It almost looked to me like Sam was thinking, "Yeah? Ya want me to go in there to stop that guy? Screw you a-hole. You made this bed, YOU sleep in it."
But Sam (whom I've never been a fan of, as you know) went in...and with almost no effort righted the Sixers on to a victory. Easy peasy.
Will Eddie Jordan stop trying to force-fit our team to fit HIS 230-288 style? I sure hope so. Because this team remains mediocre right now, at best. It just accomplishes that distinction in a slightly different way this year is all.
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I do have some issues with Eddie Jordan so far, his use (and excuses for said use) of Jrue Holliday make no sense...his benching of the kid after a mistake or two last night and never playing him again in the game when some defense could have been used from his guards and his constant DNP-CD for the kids 'psyche' give me a lot of pause. I don't believe he's helping Jrue develop, and I think the treatment could lead to him over thinking his game because of the 'one mistake and you sit' mentality that Jordan seems to be using with him.
Some comments yesterday about how starters 'earn' their time in training camp and it's a sensitive thing kind of bother me because it could sound like Jordan doesn't think a guy can earn the starting job in the regular season when the games actually count.
Not to mention - willie green still plays
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A gross omission on my part. Yes, Jrue Holliday is another example of Eddie's curious (way too-kind-a-word) coaching style.
I still have less issue with Willie Green than most everybody here (which could, perhaps, mean that IM wrong)...but nontheless, there is much to gripe about.
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Entering last night's game against the winless Nets, Jordan had yet to play Holiday in a road game.
"Is that right?" Jordan said. "There's a certain comfort level for me to get the vets out there . . . and his time will come."
There is nothing that pisses me off more than "I want to play the vets." Nothing.
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There is nothing that pisses me off more than "I want to play the vets." Nothing.
Especially when Holliday is better than one (Ivey) at something Jordan thinks that vet is good at (defense)
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Some intersting stuff about Jordan, seems like he is not going to make changes any time soon for fear of upsetting certain players:
What to do with Elton Brand(notes)... In a nutshell, the Princeton offense works best when their is only one post player on the floor, and the 76ers currently start two (Brand and Samuel Dalembert(notes)). The Princeton offense necessitates that you have a three-point shooter (or three) on the floor to spread things out for cutting players and the single post option - Jason Kapono(notes) is the sole long-range sniper on the team, and he runs with the second unit. When Marresse Speights is on the floor, it's often in a small lineup where he is the single "big" and Kapono is also involved. To me, it's a no-brainer that the starters are struggling, particulary relative to the team's second unit. What is Eddie Jordan's take?
"When you deal with the starting lineup, that can be a sensitive issue among the players. I don't want to touch a nerve right there right now. Look, are there reasons or are there some reasons for me to warrant to change the starting lineup? Yeah, because our second group has been playing very well. I like the way Marreese has been playing, I like the way Jason Smith(notes) has been playing ... but does that warrant me to change the starting lineup? No, not right now."
Okay, Eddie. More food for thought: take a look at the top two units here, note the singular difference in personnel, and then the marked difference in both offensive and defensive efficiency. While it's true that we're not dealing with large sample sizes, I'm not sure how he can say that a change in the starting lineup isn't already warranted... Brand will continue to post poor numbers for at least as long as there is no shake-up in the rotation. If Jordan makes the obvious switch, then Brand has significantly more hope for a turnaround, and that's magnified if Brand is occasionally allowed to be the single "big" in the lineup, as it's almost exclusively been Speights in that role to this point.
I am not sure if the writer is suggesting that they bench Sam or Brand, but that is the second non-Philly writer I've seen this week suggest that they just send Sammy to the end of the bench until he becomes an expiring contract. They already suck defensively, maybe with a smoother offence they could outscore some teams at least.
Bench Sammy and start either Jason Smith or Carney (please, not Willie) and give the bulk of 4-5 minutes to Smith, Speights and Brand. Kapono is too slow to be a starter, but should get regular minutes off the bench, as should Holiday. Is it ideal or even great? No, but it would be better than what they have now.
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I read that quote earlier this week and it kind of bothered me especially since on the flip side, what about the guy who has 'earned' it in the games that count? What about his sensitivity? Or the rookie who makes one mistake and sits the rest of the game? What kind of message is that?
I read something earlier today about a lou/jrue back court in a game against phoenix, and jordan said he didn't remember that back court...which was kind of amazing to me
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No excuse for Holiday not playing in that 4th quarter tonight. In a garbage period where the game was out of reach Jordan elects to go with a back court of two combo guards as opposed to our rookie point guard.
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On Libertyballers they had some great quotes from disgruntled Wizards fans. Now these type of complaints are common for any bad team, but some really jibe with the problems we can already see:
http://www.libertyballers.com/2009/11/13/1156561/sixers-lose-to-williams-less-jazz#25562100
From Fire EJ petition: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/smallballs/signatures.html
My hatred for EJ knows no bounds. Under his idiotic regime the Wizards have been one of the worst teams in the league defensively and have the absolute lowest basketball IQ. He has ridden the talents of Gilbert Arenas for long enough. It?s time for the Wizards to dump this loser and get an legit NBA coach in here.
I can?t even watch this team play any more. between the lack of intensity early in games, the lack of defensive rebounding, the wide open 3s, its just too frustrating.
It?s time for a change. This team needs a greater commitment to defense ? Eddie has had opportunities to do this, and our defense has only become worse. And I find his favoritism to be completely unprofessional.
any coach with half a brain would play Andray over Ruffin..but not you you moron. Fire Eddie!
Jordan?s the reason fans boo Haywood. Brendan?s a far better player than Eddie Jordan is as a coach. Washington?s success is due to Arenas, Jamison, Butler, and when he plays Haywood. Jordan?s total disregard of statistics that point to the ineffectiveness of Jarvis Hayes has led me to conclude he?s biased in favor of Hayes. Same for Etan Thomas. Jordan plays favorites and is a close-minded coach. Play veterans, tough guys, and guys that show effort is the reason Blatche never plays while Ruffin often does, as the Wizards lose. Blatche and Haywood are by far the best offensive rebounders on the team, but Jordan would rather get beat playing short Cs and small ball. I think Eddie Jordan is very overrated as a coach, and the Wizards will be terrible defensively as long as his staff and his pet players are on the team. Lastly, he?s going to get swept in the playoffs before he realizes Mason?s a better shooter than Stevenson.
Exceptional as individual talents, mediocre as a team ? It could only be the coachs fault.
He?s holding this franchise back. His ?leading? this team to 3 straight playoffs happens to coincide with the arrival of Arenas and Jamison, Hughes having a career contract year, and Butler making his first all star game. Is he leading, or along for the ride?
Misconception: Eddie Jordan hasn?t led the Wizards to three straight playoff appearances, he?s been riding the ?Hibachi? for the last three years. Stop giving credit where none is due!
This man is being carried by 3 extremely talented players and the extension he signed last summer set this team back years. Please, its time to go in a different direction.
What ridiculous subsitution patterns. Why haven?t we seen Blatche in the playoffs, especially given the defensive rebounding difficulties?
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yeah... Jrue Holiday and Elton Brand are the new Blatche and Haywood.
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Hey - Brand looks decent with expanded minutes.
Who'da thunk it.
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Hard to get too jazzed by that win. To struggle against .500 teams should tell you something about how we stack up.
Eddie: When we are being out-rebounded, to the point of losing in the 4th, it's time to withdraw your head from your ass and put #1 in there. Maybe tonight for Young. Who stunk.
Iggy: You are 40% as good as you think you are. Running, wildly, into the lane with :30 was ill-advised. Lucky they called a foul on them, not you, on the loose ball. Make your damn foul shots, you choker. And stop crying after every whistle. It's unbecoming.
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Well, apparently Brand can play 40 minutes and be effective...
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I know he was good - but the bobcats are terrible and how many actual power forwards do they have? And chandler had a pinched nerve and only played about 15 mnutes...i'm not exactly getting my hopes up just yet
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I know he was good - but the bobcats are terrible and how many actual power forwards do they have? And chandler had a pinched nerve and only played about 15 mnutes...i'm not exactly getting my hopes up just yet
Agree. Not taking anything away from Brand's game the other night, but Charlotte was running a lineup that was just as small as ours. Brand will be covering guys a lot bigger than Boris Diaw on most nights. At least tonight he'll be matched up against Z-Bo who cares less about defense than Eddie Jordan does. Wouldn't be surprised to see Marc Gasol dominate Sammy.
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I think the best hope for the long term future of this team is for brand to have a good 20-30 game run - improve his trade value and find someone who wants him...
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we'll see what kind of minutes he gets tonight. I fully expect Sam to get in foul trouble early on and force EJ's hand again to go with Brand.
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36 minutes, 22 points on 8-14 shooting, only 6 boards, but 4 steals and 4 blocks. Not a bad line... certainly improvement.
Gasol and Randolph still got their share of points in the paint, and we were dominated on the boards tonight... they pulled down 20 more than we did.
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So they must have fired Mo because he did not run ENOUGH small ball.
I really hate small ball, and they went with it for the final 15 minutes. I guess EJ figured they were not being beaten on the boards badly enough.
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I missed the game last night vs. Cleveland. Certainly not surprised that we lost. From looking at the box score it looks like Brand and Young played well. Can anyone give me a quick recap on how they looked? Also, what was the story of the game? Where did we get killed this time? Thanks in advance.
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Brand had another aggressive game- esp on the O-Boards. Thad looked good and was not badly abused by Lebron.
The team started badly but responded with solid play across the board.
But unsurprisingly, the Cavs put there fut down defensively in the 4th and won going away. the Sixers took a ton of jumpers in the 4th (made 1 of 13.) As typical for them, they went small (mostly Brand/Thad) the final 15 minutes of the game.
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everyone keeps pointing to the fourth quarter - but if the played better in the first maybe the cavs don't win
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How about that 4th quarter tonight by Holiday? 9 and a half minutes - 11 points, 6 rebs, 2 steals, 1 assist, 1 block, 4-6 FG's, 3-5 3pt FG's, 0 TO's. He was the catalyst for that comeback and really sparked the team on both ends of the floor. Impressive showing by the rookie.
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How about that 4th quarter tonight by Holiday? 9 and a half minutes - 11 points, 6 rebs, 2 steals, 1 assist, 1 block, 4-6 FG's, 3-5 3pt FG's, 0 TO's. He was the catalyst for that comeback and really sparked the team on both ends of the floor. Impressive showing by the rookie.
And yet more evidence that Jordan is an idiot for not playing him consistently - some guy over at DF who has not really questioned jordans treatment of the rookie was really enjoying the fourth.
Sad that this team needs a 'comeback' against sucha mediocre team
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How about that 4th quarter tonight by Holiday? 9 and a half minutes - 11 points, 6 rebs, 2 steals, 1 assist, 1 block, 4-6 FG's, 3-5 3pt FG's, 0 TO's. He was the catalyst for that comeback and really sparked the team on both ends of the floor. Impressive showing by the rookie.
And yet more evidence that Jordan is an idiot for not playing him consistently - some guy over at DF who has not really questioned jordans treatment of the rookie was really enjoying the fourth.
Sad that this team needs a 'comeback' against sucha mediocre team
Even more sad that that comeback has to be lead by a 19 year old.
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Even more sad that that comeback has to be lead by a 19 year old.
More sad that the 19 year old probably won't see significant minutes for like another week or so?
I don't have league pass any more - but what the hell happened in the third quarter?
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Nick Young and Jamison both went off. We fell asleep defensively. The usual. We also had poor shot selection (mainly Iguodala). Brand shot horribly as well, but I thought most of his shots were in rhythm... he just had an off night.
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Yes, I heard Iguodala had a bad game, I understand the over paid can't win not good enough refrain is back again - that's awesome.
Could someone PLEASE figure out what's wrong with Thaddeus Young and tell me I shouldn't be concerned that he's confused when plays are called for him?
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Young started out pretty poorly. I think he threw up 3 air balls in the first 3 quarters. He did snap out of it towards the end of the 3rd by moving closer to the rim offensively and got some garbage points around the basket. Hit a huge 3 with the shot clock winding down late in the 4th. His defense on Jamison wasn't good... nobody had an answer for him.
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Youngs defense has been pretty bad all year - even for him - hasn't it?
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Young's main defensive problems are over rotation to try to help when he shouldn't. they're mainly correctable. He is, after all, only 21 and never played on the perimeter full time except one short year at GT.
His touch around the rim is impeccable (when he doesn't turn the ball over trying to get there).
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Went again last night, masochist that I am.
Ya know...I usually pride myself on identifying fundamental errors, specific weaknesses, coaching mistakes, etc etc. But - honestly - I don't even know what to say about this damn team anymore. I can't even muster the energy to dissect it.
On paper, we are NOT a 5-18 team. Oh my God...that even felt weird to type. 5-18! We haven't won in a MONTH! And TWO of those wins were against the NETS...and each by only 3 points!
Yeah, yeah, Speights and Lou are out. But we're the same damn team as LAST YEAR (another problem I have), when those two weren't starters. And now we have Brand!
Yet we just lost a 17 point lead (SEVENTEEN POINT LEAD) to a team with MUCH more significant injuries than ours; a team of nobodies. We took 8 more shots than they did and pulled down 12 more rebounds! Yet we still find a way to lose.
Our damn bench was outscored by something like 46-6; the Rockets took 21 3's to our 6; Kapono played 16 min's yet shot 3 times (what other reason is that stiff even IN there! Why does no one screen for that loser?); Carney played 16 seconds - 16 seconds! - on a night we needed athletic defense; no damn Young in the 4th quarter (he was 15/11 up to that point).
I can't take it anymore!
I have always said, "The entire point...the JOB of an NBA coach is to ensure his team plays over its head consistently. We need every OUNCE from each and every player as often as humanly possible." We didn't have the friggin horses back in 2001 to get to the Series! But we got there!! That team overachieved to the Nth degree.
DAMN IT! As a fan who pays ALOT of money supporting this team year in and year out, I demand that THIS damn team do the same thing.
We've lost 18 games. Twelve of those was by an average of 3.75 points. TWELVE TIMES WE WERE TWO BUCKETS AWAY FROM A WIN.
Win even HALF of those and we're a .500 team. Right where we were last year and the year before.
(Ignore all that lottery talk for the sake of this argument. This team - remember - is TRYING to win. That's their JOB. Whether you are happy that they fail or not isn't the point.)
Ed - you suck worse than any GM I have ever seen. I said that from DAY ONE and will continue to say it.
Eddie - you are no longer less-than-mediocre, as you were when Ed hired you...you are now a sucky, stinky, awful, embarassment of a coach.
Get. The. F. Out.
NOW!!!!!
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TK brought it up on realgm... EJ is 8-33 in the last 41 games he's coached. It's shameful.
We're on pace to set a single season record for 3's allowed. A record currently held by EJ and his 06/07 Wizards. This troubles me.
I missed last night's game, but looked at the box score and then heard that Jordan went with Green over Young down the stretch. 'Hopeless' is the first word that comes to mind when I see Eddie Jordan on the bench.
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I missed last night's game, but looked at the box score and then heard that Jordan went with Green over Young down the stretch. 'Hopeless' is the first word that comes to mind when I see Eddie Jordan on the bench.
He thought Willie was playing well. I thought Green took 7 shots to get 2 points and was playing horrible defense. But what do I know. I'm not getting paid by 2 different organizations to coach basketball to 1 team.
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Wonder what EJ's salary per win is over the last 41 games?
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At this rate, the Eagles could have more wins than the Sixers this year.
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I missed last night's game, but looked at the box score and then heard that Jordan went with Green over Young down the stretch. 'Hopeless' is the first word that comes to mind when I see Eddie Jordan on the bench.
He thought Willie was playing well. I thought Green took 7 shots to get 2 points and was playing horrible defense. But what do I know. I'm not getting paid by 2 different organizations to coach basketball to 1 team.
Amazing isn't it? What a joke that is. You could do a lot better than Eddie. I bet Stefanski didn't even interview you!
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What did everyone think about EJ pulling Holiday last night with 2:30 left in the game? In doing so, he switched Iguodala onto Mo Williams and brought Willie Green off the bench to guard Lebron down the stretch. Are we tanking? That's the only logical reasoning I can of behind that decision.
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I didn't see the game, but this pretty much is a good summary by someone I tend to agree with regarding the sixers.
http://www.depressedfan.com/basketball/sixers/willie-and-iverson-for-defense.php
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What did everyone think about EJ pulling Holiday last night with 2:30 left in the game? In doing so, he switched Iguodala onto Mo Williams and brought Willie Green off the bench to guard Lebron down the stretch. Are we tanking? That's the only logical reasoning I can of behind that decision.
Technically, he didn't switch iguodala onto mo williams. Iguodala started the sets off on LeBron, but they ran 5 consecutive picks to try to get the Sixers to switch, which they did every time (twice with Jrue, both resulting in buckets, and 3 times with Willie).
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That was some entertaining defense by Jrue. I don't usually "enjoy" watching defense. But its fun to see the kid lock down these supposed stars.
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It wasn't an entire game, but I watched the end of the Kings/Wiz on ESPN before going to sleep last night, and that steal that Evans put on Gilbert Arenas as Arenas was driving for the 'last basket' (which was a bad idea in my opinion, play call wise) was a thing of beauty...
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What did everyone think about EJ pulling Holiday last night with 2:30 left in the game? In doing so, he switched Iguodala onto Mo Williams and brought Willie Green off the bench to guard Lebron down the stretch. Are we tanking? That's the only logical reasoning I can of behind that decision.
Technically, he didn't switch iguodala onto mo williams. Iguodala started the sets off on LeBron, but they ran 5 consecutive picks to try to get the Sixers to switch, which they did every time (twice with Jrue, both resulting in buckets, and 3 times with Willie).
Yeah, they got caught in switches a couple of times, but there was a possession where Green just lined up on Lebron and Iguodala on Williams, which I didn't understand. I believe it was the one where Lebron just shot over him from the perimeter (not sure though). Regardless, I didn't think the timing there to bench Holiday for Willie made any sense.
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What did everyone think about EJ pulling Holiday last night with 2:30 left in the game? In doing so, he switched Iguodala onto Mo Williams and brought Willie Green off the bench to guard Lebron down the stretch. Are we tanking? That's the only logical reasoning I can of behind that decision.
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I thought it was a bad decision at the time. The Sixers had pulled into the lead, and their defense had caused the Cavs to miss several shots in succession, and at this point Jordan starts to make changes. I wouldn't have done anything until the Cavaliers changed. Not so sure that you want Iguodala on LeBron then either. I think the Cavs are so dependent on LeBron that the Sixers should have denied him and collapsed on him away from the basket.
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The Sixers had fallen behind by 5 when he pulled Jrue. Still not a good move, but also did not decide the outcome or turn the game.
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I think that loss came down to two things:
1. We are not nearly as good as the Cavs. (Every time they went to their bench, I found myself saying "dear lord, they have HIM, too!"). In fact I took that loss as a decent sign as we almost beat a team with a winning record. :-\
2. Eddie has no idea how to win. I never once thought we were GOING to win...and have rarely felt that way at any point during the season. (When I had, we eventually lost.) His substitutions never pan out...he makes no adjustments...hell, he doesn't even call plays out of TO's. I can't say there are ANY coaches we'd face over whom I'd feel we had an advantage. Can you?
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Iverson unavailable, start willie green.
Strong move
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Eddie Jordan's reign of terror continues.
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Nice effort. Two very good games in a row against two elite teams. Be nice to go on a little bit of a run, eh?
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So, what is our bench going to look like when fully healthy? Will Holiday/AI continue to start? If so, that would leave a bench of Williams, Brand, Speights, and Kapono. Not bad on paper.
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Will Holiday/AI continue to start? If so, that would leave a bench of Williams, Brand, Speights, and Kapono. Not bad on paper.
Of course not - Eddie Jordan was drooling over an Iverson Williams back court when Iverson was signed, Holiday back to the bench, just hoping not as far down the original 'rotation' as he used to be
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Will Holiday/AI continue to start? If so, that would leave a bench of Williams, Brand, Speights, and Kapono. Not bad on paper.
Of course not - Eddie Jordan was drooling over an Iverson Williams back court when Iverson was signed, Holiday back to the bench, just hoping not as far down the original 'rotation' as he used to be
He did say that he liked the idea of Iverson/Williams together, but that was before Iverson/Holiday played together and he's since stated that he likes the Iverson/Holiday back court. That said, it's difficult to demote Williams with how well he's played and I wouldn't be surprised to see EJ start him next to Iverson, no matter how vulnerable it makes us defensively. Still, it's not set in stone. I guess we'll all find out for sure next week. Can't wait to see how Eddie Jordan handles this one...
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That all depends on if you are or are not a believer of the 'you don't lose your spot because of injury' - if you buy that theory - Gehrig doesn't pipp Pipp
I still prefer a starting back court of Holiday and Iguodala
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I would also prefer Holiday/Iguodala to start at the 1 and 2. I just know that Jordan doesn't have the balls to bench Iverson and I've sort of accepted that it's not happening. We won't know where EJ stands on the 'you don't lose your spot because of injury' theory until next week when Williams returns.
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What is so bad about Iguodala and Williams with Holiday and Iverson coming off the bench? The concern should be getting Brand into the starting line-up and getting more play for Jason Smith. The guards are fine and give Jordan lots of flexibility- he could even put all of them on the floor with Willie Green for a real small team, and with that group, he could get way with that some nights and win!
Jru Holiday is the best natural passer on the team and he has better instincts than most. Jordan realizes he's a better player than Willie and that's saying something. That puts him at #4 on the guard depth chart, behind Andre, Allen and Lou, right where he belongs.
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What is so bad about Iguodala and Williams with Holiday and Iverson coming off the bench?
The fact that Iverson will blow a gasket ?
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What is so bad about Iguodala and Williams with Holiday and Iverson coming off the bench?
The fact that Iverson will blow a gasket ?
I'm as big an Iverson fan as anyone, but his feelings about whether he should start or not are quite frankly irrelevant, and wouldn't sway me at all. Either he's a real teamate or he isn't. What matters is what's best for the team and if that means an older AI coming off the bench, then he should be willing. If not, he can always watch the games from the stands!
If Elton Brand, a legitimate 20 and 10 guy is tolerating it, AI has no reason to complain. As a fan of the team, I do have the right to be pissed at Jordan's rotations and decisions, and apparently a lot of us feel the same way.
In addition AI is old and may not be able to handle the wear and tear of starting. I would tell him that I want him for the playoffs, and to just give me 20-25 min, of great play off the bench. Or, we could always let Lou and AI fight over it- whoever has the best stats wins.
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You know - this Iverson problem is easily solved by cutting him before his contract is guaranteed.
Just thinking outside the box
Trying to change the Para Dig Um
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You know - this Iverson problem is easily solved by cutting him before his contract is guaranteed.
Just thinking outside the box
Trying to change the Para Dig Um
Unfortunately, us thinking outside the box doesn't change what the front office is thinking.
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Well sure it doesn't, but what fun would it be if we didn't at least try psychic manipulation
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Maybe they can cut him... and then resign him to a 10 day contract in March. that will fill some seats for a couple of games ;)
Its interesting that the possible best future line-up of Jrue/Iguodala/Thad/Brand/Spights has yet to be on the floor... ever.
BTW, maybe Jrue should change his name to Drue. You know with "D" but has no "J". Sorry, that was kind of weak, but its early.
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Everyone is aware of the deal including AI. Stefanski talked with him about it, and made it clear to everyone that there would be no guarantee of starting or anything, and the non-guaranteed contract.
Iverson may not like it, and may even ask for an explanation, but he cannot complain about it without pissing off the team, or the coach.
Besides, it will get AI on our side with regard to getting rid of Jordan!
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If Brand can come off the bench, so can Iverson. Playing 20-24 mpg in two stints, one each half, would be perfect for him. Brand doesn't like coming off the bench, but he's doing it an causing minimal problems. Hence, any claim by AI that he is being disrespected by being the first guard off the bench would ring even hollower than usual.
The team's future is Holiday, Williams, Young, Speights and Iguodala (as players or trade bait). Hopefully Brand can put up good enough numbers that some contender is willing to pick him up at the deadline. This team needed a good third guard to start the season and Iverson can give them that. Defensively you just can't start Iverson and Williams (although they probably will) and I don't see Iverson outplaying Williams at this point once Williams is back to full speed.
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All I want for Christmas is a Brand for Z trade, where the Sixers buy out Z so he can rejoin the Cavs.
Of course Santa probably knows better...
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If Brand can come off the bench, so can Iverson
It's not a matter of can - it's a matter of will - and history indicates that Iverson will not come off the bench happily - there's what one wants and there's reality.
Brand and Iverson are not the same person.
All I want for Christmas is a Brand for Z trade, where the Sixers buy out Z so he can rejoin the Cavs.
Cleveland does that why?
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All I want for Christmas is a Brand for Z trade, where the Sixers buy out Z so he can rejoin the Cavs.
Cleveland does that why?
Well that would essentially give them Brand for free (since they can re-sign Z after he is bought out)- which could put them over the top. So if they think adding another championship piece keeps Lebron then they would at least consider it (Brand would be an upgrade at PF.)
But more likely the Cavs know Lebron is gone and will avoid taking on more bad contracts.
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I don't think Lebron is a 'lock' to be gone (especially not in the way Bosh is a lock to leave Toronto and they should just trade his ass and get what they can) as much as people say and I personally tink Brand is still a really solid player who could be had for pennies on the dollar.
Chad Ford in his chat today said that with the cap and tax projected to go down again next year you might see some lopsided (Pau Gasol) salary dumps...a smart team with expiring contracts could make some strong moves if that's true.
However, the sixers aren't smart, so I expect that if a 'gasol' type deal happens that elton brand will be traded for kenny thomas and spare cheap parts
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Why anyone thinks we should trade Elton Brand needs to explain themselves. He's a 20 and 10 guy and they aren't common. Just because this coach is an idiot and doesn't know how to use him, is irrelevant to this man's talent and ability.
With the right coach this team can compete for a championship this season. There isn't a team out there with two better front court players than Speights and Brand. Or at least none that can outscore them.
Don't kid yourself about what it takes to win in the NBA playoffs. It takes a half court offense with Big men who can post up and score and draw fouls. All the competing teams have this. Lakers have Gasol and Bynum. Celtics have Garnett and Perkins. The Cavaliers have Shaq. Orlando has Dwight and Lewis. Are any of those combo's so much better than Brand and Speights that we would lose based on that match-up? These are the players the team has been missing, the components that allow them to play well and execute in the half-court, an offense that is difficult to stop or disrupt.
Dalembert is a good back-up in the NBA, an above average shot-blocker. Jason Smith needs to play more, to give us more big man depth. The biggest problem I have with Eddie Jordan is his determination to play Thad Young as a 4. If Thad was used as a three, that would give Jason the opportunity to develop. This team has more than enough guards, and enough big men if they were all used. But at the small forward spot all we have is Andre and Carney and Kapono. Carney doesn't get any PT(I don't understand why, and Kapono does which I understand even less.)
It gives us such a size advantage when Thad plays 3 that it is really stupid not to take advantage of. And it also makes sense to play Elton or Marreese or even Jason Smith at the 4 instead.
You may not believe this, but there is actually less of a difference between being a winning and losing team than you might imagine. There has to be sufficient talent, and there has to be a working strategy on offense and defense using the right combination of players. And while the Sixers have appeared to be a losing team, injuries and a bad coach are the reason they have such a poor record. Not having Brand and Speights hurt this team, as did losing a 20 pt. scorer in Lou Williams.
This team has yet to have a night when Lou Williams, Andre Iguodala, Thad Young, Elton Brand and Marreese Speights were all playing together, healthy and clicking on all 5 cylinders. They were on the floor together in the Clipper game, but Lou wasn't himself. (They did get the Sixer back into the game with that group, however. If they weren't down so far to begin with thanks to Jordan's idiocy, this game would have been a win. If Lou was making his shots it would have been a win.
Eddie is the only thing standing between this team and a long winning streak. Even Utah is winnable.
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Why anyone thinks we should trade Elton Brand needs to explain themselves.
Team bad.
Key players ages 19-25
team at tax threshold and likely has little more than MLE money in nay of the next 4 years.
Brand will make 15M,16M,18M ages 32-4.
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I'm not sure I said the sixers should trade Brand, I think the SIXERS think the sixers need to trade brand (as numerous reports have indicated) and their cost conscious cap fearing cowardice combined with a shrinking tax number could mean they'd trade him for pennies on a dollar.
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What was with Jordan yanking the lineup that overturned the deficit and built a 7 point lead so that he could experiment with that awful triple big man lineup with Speights, Smith, and Brand? That didn't work? Wow... who would've thought?
To cap it off Eddie Jordan style, he calls for us to foul in a single possession game with a 10 second differential from shot clock to game clock. Great stuff, Eddie.
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I know I'm going to be alone here, but I've actually come to feel sorry for him. I'm not even being facetious. I honestly believe he possesses not one ounce of basketball coaching know-how.
The look on his face last night revealed for me someone who wanted it very badly, but not one of someone who knew how to go get it.
He is way-in over his head.
And I almost feel like it's not even his fault. It's like you and I coaching ballet. I need the job; I'm not going to say 'no' to the money. But down deep I know that I know nothing about an arabesque.
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He's being paid by 2 NBA teams. I don't feel sorry for him at all.
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Feel sorry for the GM's he suckered into hiring him! Give him credit for at least being a good confidence man. He talks mumbo jumbo about the vaunted Princeton, then ruins the team with inconsistent and poorly thought-out line ups, playing his starters off the bench and his bench players as starters, no defensive structure and no understanding of how to control and win games.
In fairness to him, the same thing happnened in Washington, and it took them time to start winning. But that's was a bad way to go, since this team doesn't need a fancy offense to get shots. They could score and win with a vanillia offense, since they have post up players. The real problem is consistent floor presence and he doesn't know who on his team provides it. Like Ricky said he is in over his head. It's ruining our team.
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I can't say I feel sorry for Stefanski. I think he blows chunks.
Yet he came here with much fanfare.
When I have time I'll review how we compare to before he got here. But in my estimation...he's done diddly squat. PLUS he's annoying and goofy and giggly. Can't stand him.
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I can't say I feel sorry for Stefanski. I think he blows chunks.
Yet he came here with much fanfare.
When I have time I'll review how we compare to before he got here. But in my estimation...he's done diddly squat. PLUS he's annoying and goofy and giggly. Can't stand him.
Our draft selections since the Stafanski era arrived have been superb, all performing well above expectations for their draft rank. If Ed isn't responsible for that, who is?
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"Superb"? I can't say I share your choice of words. (Especially "elite", the term you used to describe our current Sixers squad.) But I do love how guys get credit for drafting. You do realize that they have to make a pick, right? Otherwise, it would go something like...
Commissioner: "...with the 14th pick of the 2008 draft the Philadelphia Seventy Sixers select... (Ahem) The Philadelphia Seventy Sixers select... I say - the Sixers-- Oh well. The Sixers have apparently failed to choose anyone; and so they lose their pick at this time."
Anyway, so Ed chose - whom? Speights who can't defend or rebound (which makes him half a player) and Holiday who currently shows promise...in his 19 minutes per game over a total of 19 games.
Superb? Really?
He picked up Elton Brand who'd played 37 games over the course of two full years; got rid of Kyle Korver, replacing him (at first with no one) eventually with Jason Kapono who does nothing - whatsoever - when he is not standing on the 3 pt line, usually fully defended; has had no success dumping the ludicrous salaries he inherited; dumped Reggie Evans - one of the NBA's best rebounders-per-minute, replacing him with.....NO ONE; and brought in his buddy Eddie flippin' Jordan (who will go down as one of the WORST coaches to ever put on a tie) to coach this personality-less team.
Dear God. The more I think of it the worse Stefanski is. WE'VE WON 7 GODDAMN GAMES!!! Only TWO TEAMS HAVE WORSE RECORDS THAN US!!!
We are on pace to win about 20 games.
20 games.
Twenty.
The blame had better start at the TOP, or we are all in alot of trouble for the next decade.
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[
Our draft selections since the Stafanski era arrived have been superb, all performing well above expectations for their draft rank. If Ed isn't responsible for that, who is?
The Same guy who has been their main draft person for 10 years... Tony Dileo. The only time I know of Dileo being overruled was when LB wanted Hughes (Pierce and Dirk being the next players picked.)
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The Rumor on the Hughes draft is that even Billy King was smarter than brown
The internet rumor that persists is that dielo and king each wanted one of pierce or dirk (forget who wanted who) and brown wanted hughes...
Giving Stefanski credit for drafting well ignores everything that happened since DiLeo wasin charge of it before Stefanski got here.
The only positive argument of keeping eddie jordan actually is that the higher the pick the better dileo can dop
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"Superb"? I can't say I share your choice of words. (Especially "elite", the term you used to describe our current Sixers squad.) But I do love how guys get credit for drafting. You do realize that they have to make a pick, right? Otherwise, it would go something like...
Speights and Jrue are both incredible value picks considering where we were drafting. I challenge you to find a team who has had a pick 16th or later in each of the two drafts who have done better. More importantly, I challenge you to find a team with 16th or later who will feel better about these picks in 5 years.
Not sure what the point about "having" to draft is. We're not giving the Sixers credit for selecting a name, but the RIGHT name.
The rest that you said has nothing to do with drafting.
(that being said, I agree that Tony DiLeo is the main reason for our continued draft success).
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I challenge you to find a team who has had a pick 16th or later in each of the two drafts who have done better.
Okee dokee.
'08 - Speights was clearly the best player at that spot. Ed'd have to have been a nimrod not to pick him. But wasn't Courtney Lee taken after Speights? Personally I like Ryan Anderson a little bit. Even Roy Hibbert, IMO, would look better at the 5 than what we have. (After all...Speights is a 4 and we got a real good one of those in Brand, and a heck of a back-up in Smith.)
And, despite this being far too early to argue for or against the "value" of a rookie...
'09 - Ty Lawson? Also a guard...more points per game, more assists per game, WAY better FG%, WAY better 3P% - all in the same minutes.
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1) Speights was not considered a slam dunk pick in '08 at that spot at draft time
2) You're completely ignoring my question. I said find <b>a team</b> who did better than the Sixers in those drafts who drafted at or later than the Sixers. Getting contributors at 16 or later two years in a row is nearly unheard of.
As for your players.
- You'd kill Ryan Anderson for his rebounding.
- Hibbert might be (arguably) a better player now (although his defense, when you look past the blocked shots, is very bad at this level. The whole footspeed thing has caught up to him). But I don't care about immediate fit. This team is more than a Roy Hibbert away from contending. I care about 3 years from now. And I don't believe there's a question on who will be the better player.
- You're comparing a 22 year old to a 19 year old. Make the comparison in 3 years. IMO Jrue's a better natural court, with better court vision and better D RIGHT NOW, and when he fills out will be a better overall player. As I said, I care much more about 3 years from now than right now. We're not a Ty Lawson away from competing.
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I'm really losing it with this (proven) loser.
I wish that even once, Eddie would make a substitution that would shut me up.
He is - literally - a basketball moron.
1. Where the f*** was Sam in the 4th? I can't stand Sam, as you know, but he was playing terrifically (almost smart, even)...and then disappeared completely.
2. If I ever see Kapono in a game again, I will boycott for the next three. Kapono is the least talented basketball player I have ever seen. He sucks. Suckssuckssucks. And if he MUST be in there - Eddie - draw up a goddamn screen to get the guy open. I never ever ever see any effort to get that guy open on the perimeter.
3. When the younger guys suck - get them the f*** out!!! Holliday - often - sucks. I know, I know, JEM loves the guy. He shows flashes of defensive intensity...even a little offense occasionally... But on many, many other nights - he is in waaaay over his head. Last night was one such night. He killed us. TWENTY minutes of THAT?? He shoulda been pulled after 7.
4. Iverson - who's proven to have become a mature play-maker - maybe our BEST player - is glued to the bench for the 4th? The FOURTH of all quarters? You dumb ass, Ed. Are you TRYING to lose? Even the announcers were asking why. (They also mentioned that it's our DEFENSE, not offense, which will get us wins, Rick. As I'd maintained.)
5. Where the hell was YOUNG? I'm maybe the only guy who thinks Young's defense is overrated a touch...but, man oh man, he needed to get more minutes last night. We needed high percentage baskets in the WORST WAY...and Thad always delivers those.
Speaking of which, Ed: When your team goes cold...and the other team gets hot (as was the case at the beginning of the second half last night)...call time out and remind these guys it's DEFENSE, REBOUNDING, and then - with the resultant change in possession - it's to be NOTHING BUT HIGH PERCENTAGE SHOTS. And those include - only - lay-ups and foul shots. How many goddamn long bombs do we need to clank until he realizes that THAT'S NOT HOW YOU GET HOT AGAIN.
Oh. And - often - Speights blows. I'm so tired of people who get excited by that guy's offense. When that (admittedly) exciting aspect of his game is rendered mediocre? ...he's exposed for the half-player that he is.
Go check his +/-
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Anyone read Ms. Fagan today?
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Sure did. I enjoyed that read.
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wow.
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I was waiting for EJ to change that lineup in the 4th, but it just never happened...
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Complete collapse. When you have players that obviously don't have it sit them down. Speights and Carney to not really play in the second half after they played well the first half is a crime. Carney could have shut Nick Young down, wish he was given the chance.
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As bad as not changing the lineup was, something happened in the second quarter that proved to me that the problem right now is at least some part a lack of effort.
Holiday was guarding Boykins. A big man sets a pick (I wasn't paying attention to who their big men were, sorry). Our big man (Speights and Brand were our big men) just stands there as Boykins runs one way and Holiday goes under the screen, then Boykins goes back the other way, with our big man still just standing there as Boykins gets past Holiday. This happens again the next two times down the floor, with Boykins using a screen 2-3 times with absolutely no help. That's not a failure to defend a pick and roll, that's a pure lack of effort, and it was disgusting to watch. Holiday was working his ass off while the rest of the team just stood around watching. Brutal.
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Yes, I saw that too. Brand was particularly guilty.
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I saw that happening in the second quarter. I just thought it was on one or two plays, Boykins only took 3 shots. No reason that wasn't mentioned at half-time. But that is part of the problem, but I don't see that being the total reason we lost. Boykins only played 6 minutes, mostly in the second quarter. Once Saunders realized that Williams wasn't guarding anyone and AI was spent (by the end of the 1st quarter) he went right at them. We were missing shots in the second half and I don't remember an offensive rebound for the second half. Usually that is where Speights and Brand do rebound. I honestly think when things get tough some of these players are starting to think this is hopeless. They are getting numb to losing. Not a good thing.
AI and Williams can't guard Nick Young or Butler. Thad can't handle Jamison. And we had players who never really played the second half that were big contributors in the first half. I could go on and on about substitutions. It is just tremoundously frustrating watching this team right now.
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This game kills me on so many levels. And, again, it's gotta come back to Jordan. (Well Stefanski AND Jordan.)
While I believe Washington presents a tough match-up for us (due to the things they happen to do well vs. what we don't)...they're still a basement-dwelling team. They have, what, ELEVEN wins? THREE against US?
It'd be funny if it weren't for the fact we care so much.
It sort of looked to me like we were still hung-over from the trip and just didn't have "it" in us. At least not to sustain 48 minutes. And that comes back on Eddie. And HE will always come back to Fat Ed.
I agree with Mark. We've become "numb to losing". There once was a day (earlier in the decade) when we refused to lose.
Now it's a much more palatable option.
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Did Jordan speak after the game? I haven't seen any post game quotes or anything. I'm interested to hear him try to explain the logic to his 2nd half rotations.
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Iguodala said this after the game
From Andre Iguodala: "We need to start playing like we're 10-24, not like we're 24-10." Iguodala said he feels they have too much swagger
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Jordan Postgame
http://www.nba.com/sixers/video/2009/12/19/091219jordanmov-1158598/index.html
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That's the clippers post game
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Iguodala said this after the game
From Andre Iguodala: "We need to start playing like we're 10-24, not like we're 24-10." Iguodala said he feels they have too much swagger
That's pretty poignant from a guy who I thought provided all that swagger.
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That's the clippers post game
Interesting, I didn't even look at the link i just clicked on the links provided - it's the link that comes from here
http://www.nba.com/sixers/news/postgame_report_100105.html
Says Jordan postgame and yet it's the clippers...what are they hiding?
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I record them straight from the tv to use as potential audio clips on sixersbeat.
Denver:
http://archive.sixersbeat.com/postgame/2010-01-03/
Washington:
http://archive.sixersbeat.com/postgame/2010-01-05/
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Not to be conspiratorial - but on csnphilly.com all the post game 'flash' videos load pretty easily - except the one that would have jordans comments :)
Thanks for the archive - that's awesome - intersting to listen to jordan who doesn't mentoin defense at all (to me) in his postgame whereas it's the first thing Iguodala talks about - can't get stops in the fourth quarter all year -
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Good stuff Derek/Jem.
The man sounds more and more clueless every time I hear him speak.
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I found it interesting that EFJ threw his players under the bus when he mentioned that they did not take advantage of the Wiz being in the penalty with less than 3 minutes gone in the 3rd quarter...but if it was the PLAYERS fault, then why did you sub in both Kapono and Smith - two guys that, in addition to being less-than-stellar defenders (at a time that the Wiz were making their run) are guys who generate the overwhelming majority of their offense from the perimeter?
I guess that IDIOTIC substitution was the PLAYERS fault as well, huh?
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Usually if you listen to Jordan and if he says "We" he is actually trying to absolve himself from responsibility. I though he should have said "It was my fault we did not get to the line more since I should have called the right plays from the bench to make that happen and stressed it during time-outs". But you are exactly right, he should have added "It was my responsibility to have the right players in the game at that time and I failed by putting two stand still jump shooters in."
I am starting to understand Jordanese. If you really look at how he talks about the Princeton Offense, even then he is distancing himself from coaching responsibilities. It is a "offense that requires the players on the floor to make a read of the defense and react to it". So it basically takes play calling off of his to do list. If the players make the wrong read, it is not his fault.
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This situation is intollerable and it is hurting the Sixers, (and their prospects for a successful season not only this year but in the future as well.)
The problem is Eddie Jordan, the coach. It is abundantly clear that he is incapable of getting the maximum potential of wins out of the Sixers. It is so bad it seems like he is the reason they are losing games. How can you evaluate your team when it's being coached by a moron? (that was a rhetorical question. the answer is you can't.)
This means the Sixers don't know who to trade or if they should trade anyone, and who they need to draft or bring in to improve the team's chances of winning. In this instance the best change the Sixers can make is to get rid of their head Coach. In fact, at this point Ed Stefanski has to fire him, because it will interfere with his ability to assemble a winning team.
Frankly the Sixers have too much talent to be losing games like this. It is only Jordan's coaching that ensures they will lose games they shouldn't. If Stefanski doesn't fire him they should both be terminated. Snyder needs to pull the plug before this goes any further. I'd even feel better with Jimmy Lynham making the decisions.
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http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/deep-sixer/Piecing_it_together.html
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The Sixers were up by 18 points because Washington could not hit the little chippies. Then they started hitting these chippies. Today, Jordan was asked if maybe you go with better defenders at that point in a game.
Jordan shrugged it off and said, "And then not score the ball efficiently?" To which the questioner responded, "Maybe when you're up 18?" Jordan responded: "Your best players should be good defenders and that?s what we?re trying to get to. Trying to get our best players to defend as a unit, defend indiviudually, so you can have balance. There?s no such thing as unbalanced. Good teams don?t just put five defenders on the floor. Your better players are your defenders."
oh my god.
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http://www.depressedfan.com/basketball/sixers/congratulations-your-team-is-a.php
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Dammit Jem, I came on here just to post that. Kate Fagan is quickly establishing herself as the best sportswriter in this city. She has identified the core problem with this team and has just written two spot-on articles that confirms what everybody else has been suspecting. And she has a great writing style too.
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Dammit Jem, I came on here just to post that. Kate Fagan is quickly establishing herself as the best sportswriter in this city. She has identified the core problem with this team and has just written two spot-on articles that confirms what everybody else has been suspecting. And she has a great writing style too.
Plus, and yes it's entirely sexist of me, but I don't care, how cool is it that your best beat writer for your pro (non WNBA) sports team is a woman? That's awesome.
But watch her get shut out of anything to do with the sixers for the rest of the stefanski/jordan regime?
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I don't really know how much access she has to begin with beyond basic media credentials. That being said, I wonder if the Sixers are aware what happened when the Royals blackballed Rany. If they are, I highly doubt they would be willing to risk that much negative PR.
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Wait - someone noticed something the royals did?
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Unfortunately for the Royals, they had two of the best sportswriters in the country covering them (Rany and JoePos). Rany got blackballed for his negativity (no, really, the Royals banned him from their stadium and told the radio stations he appeared on that they would lose all access if they let Rany on the air). Rany quit writing indefinitely at the end of the season. JoePos just wrote a 9000 word article on how much the Royals suck. I know more about the Royals than any team other than the Phillies, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who can say that (with insert local team instead of the Phillies).
Also, just read that depressedfan article. He forgot to mention the fact that about 1/4 of the Sixers' games can't even be seen by a large chunk of their fanbase, and especially college students, the very people they keep trying to reach. I'm sorry that my college does not provide me with a digital box to get channel 8. And my school actually has Comcast. But yeah, this is getting ugly. For every step we take (or could take) forward, we take two steps back.
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Where was AI in the 2nd?
Where was Carney all night?
Too much Iggy. (He looked spent to me, late.)
WAY too much time for a struggling Young.
Oh, and :08 is the perfect amount of time to execute a play you've worked on incessantly.
That's what I got for now. Goodnight.
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AI shot 3-6 in the second half. He didn't get the ball all that much. It appeared to me that he was getting freezed out.
Thad and Iggy played 24 minutes each the second half, Sammy played 22 of 24 minutes. Speights had 8 points in 9 minutes the first half and then played 2 minutes the second half, came in cold gave up 4 quick points to Bosh and that was it.
Iverson with 5 minutes left hit two straight shots to tie the score. Thad then missed 4 shots. Earlier in the quarter he was 0-3 with three turnovers over 6 possessions. Allen shot the ball one more time the rest of the game. Allen gets a steal with less than a minute to go and passes the ball to Iggy who then goes one on three against 2 seven footers and a 6'10" player and gets his shot blocked.
We gave up 59 second half points and Carney didn't play the second half and Speights only 2 minutes when Sammy got his 5th foul.
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And the best defensive point guard had how many minutes total?
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My personal theory is that EJ was feeling the pressure from his horrible 12 man rotation and his idea of fixing it is to leave the same lineup on the court for the whole 2nd half... completely disregarding the fact that it was the front end of a back to back. Speights/Carney/Holiday should have come in for the end of the 3rd and beginning of the 4th to give some of our starters a rest.
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I honestly think that was a great win. The Sixers actually looked competitive, against a good (and red hot) team.
And - slap me if I'm wrong - it's the first time I actually thought the substitutions made sense. I mean, I'd be thinking, "ok...time to get Iggy back in" - and a minute later...he'd be in. "Time for less Young..." - a minute later, he's out. It was almost eerie.
And - this I refuse to believe: But could it have been possible that Eddie INTENTIONALLY switched Sam to West at the end...so he'd not switch to defend Paul? And that he actually PLANNED for Carney to be the 'switcher'?
Say it isn't so!
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There's definitely some visible changes. I like the shortened rotation, 7 or 8 guys with 1 or 2 others playing situationally. I'm pretty sure Lou hurt his ankle late in the third quarter, which got Jrue on the court when he should be. Didn't like that they were leaving him on a complete island 1v1 against Chris Paul, and he pretty much got abused, but that's what you get when you put a rookie on Chris Paul with absolutely nobody to help. Thought that Thad should've played over Willie in the 4th quarter, especially considering he started to find his stroke in the 3rd. Thad is also noticeably better popping out to help defend the pick and roll. Glad to see Speights nailed to the bench. Didn't think I'd say that, but until he learns to pass the ball, he should stay on the bench.
All that being said, there's a lot of positives the last two games. Maybe we can make a run at this after all.
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There definitely has been some improvement, but it's far from fulfilling this team's potential. 21 points in a quarter is bad scoring, and the Sixers did it twice. Getting outrebounded by the other team and giving up 19 O-boards is pathetic against a team like the Hornets.
Not playing Speights enough is not a good thing, it's a serious mistake. First off with regard to his passing, he shoots a higher percentage than any other player on the team. More often that not, he SHOULD be taking the shot. The idiot who critisized him for not passing, know less about basketball than some Women I know. In fact, the negativity surrounding him is moronic, considering his potential. Best post up scorer the Sixers have and Jordan only finds 5 minutes for him? That's bad coaching.
Brand fouled out of the game last night and Sam also got into foul trouble. Having Speights and Smith ready to play is integral to this team's long-term success. And continuing to start Thad at the 4 is also stupid. How many times does Sammy do a good job defending the first shot only to have another player make the 2nd? Sam can't do it by himself, and Thad isn't strong enough to keep most 4's off the glass.
It was an Ok win, but it shouldn't have been anywhere near this close a game. Eddie tends to play some way too many minutes, and it usually costs us the game. You don't want bad players out there, making mistakes. But fatigue causes mistakes too.
The problem is Jordan has more confidence in his guards than he does his big forwards. We go 4 deep in the backcourt with Lou, AI, Willie and Jrue. But no one really spells Sam when he is out, and Speghts gets very little time, meaning that the Center and Power forward spot are only being manned by 3 players. Sam, Elton and Thad. Meanwhile Speights and Smith sit on the bench not getting any experience or providing any rest for the others who are getting overworked.
This also keeps Iguodala as a 3 and not a 2. Which forces Eddie to play Thad as a 4 which he is not. A third of the way into the season, you'd expect more out of Smith and Speights, who while raw both show potential to be solid players. This has been a problem with the Sixers for years, before it was because we didn't have these players but now it's because the coach is unwilling to use his bigs to create mismatch problems for the other team. If your team can have a height advantage that's a good thing!
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Not playing Speights enough is not a good thing, it's a serious mistake. First off with regard to his passing, he shoots a higher percentage than any other player on the team. More often that not, he SHOULD be taking the shot. The idiot who critisized him for not passing, know less about basketball than some Women I know. In fact, the negativity surrounding him is moronic, considering his potential. Best post up scorer the Sixers have and Jordan only finds 5 minutes for him? That's bad coaching.
1. Speights has not been playing well. I challenge you to - without even MENTIONING his offense - make a case for him playing.
2. It wasn't me who mentioned his lack of passing...but that's pretty offensive language just the same. Not entirely of the spirit upon which this Board was built. Take it from me. ;)
3. You mentioned points allowed and yielding too many boards...yet you WANT more Speights. That doesn't make sense, imo. Speights does ONE THING well. He has potential, yes. But this team loses because of DEFENSE, not offense.
Frankly, last night when Brand fouled out...I wanted SMITH to come in.
And continuing to start Thad at the 4 is also stupid.
Now THIS I agree with. Time to start Brand again.
This also keeps Iguodala as a 3 and not a 2.
...which is a good thing. He's not a 2, imo.
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Please spare me the namecalling, I get enough of that at PhilaPhans for daring to say that Andre Iguodala is worth his contract.
Speights has shot 47.4% since coming back from injury. In the exact same time span, Elton Brand has shot 55.2%. So yes, while Speights has the best % on the team over the course of the season, he's cooled off a whole lot since his hot start. He also plays worse defense on PFs than Thad does, and he's often comically bad at defending the pick and roll, something that Thad is actually getting to be quite good at. Speights gets more rebounds than Thad, but he also never plays with Dalembert, and as much as we all pile on Dalembert, he boards well. He's getting 3.5 more boards per 40 this year than Speights so far.
Speaking of Thad and Brand, I'm gonna hafta disagree with you here Ricky. Brand is undeniably better than Thad. However, if we started Dalembert and Brand, there'd inevitably be stretches of time where our frontcourt is Speights and Thad, and I don't think any of us want to see that if we can avoid it. It's more lacking faith in EJ to properly manage it than thinking it shouldn't happen. We're really just lacking a 3rd big man (and no, Reggie Evans wasn't the answer either). We all hope that Speights develops into that, but right now, he's just too soft, too inept defensively, and too much of a ballhog on offense. I think twice last night he got the ball at the top of the floor and drove all the way to the basket, once getting stripped and once missing the shot.
As for the rest of your points:
-Speights may be the best post scorer, but it seems like I haven't seen him there in ages. He's fallen in love too much with the mid-range jumper and the out of control drive to the basket. Not sure the best post scorer isn't Thad though, at least when he's on.
-I would like to see them try to go big at the end of games with Jrue-Iggy-Thad-Brand-Sammy if they have a lead. Just seems like it would be a good defensive lineup.
-Iggy is a 3 who can defend 2s. Thad is a 4 who can't really defend anybody very well. They really need to fix that somehow.
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First off the Sixers problems are all about offense. You aren't the only one who disagrees with me on this, but I have great confidence in my analysis and I have the facts to back it up.
It's easy: A good offense means that you get up a decent shot most of the time, if you can run down the court and get an easy one, that's great, and you should push it after every shot, made or missed. But if that first shot isn't there, you start passing and work your offense. The most important part is what happens after your shot. Obviously you want 2nd and 3rd chances if you miss-yes, that IS a part of offense. But if the other team gets the ball, you want to be set up before they get down the court. The Sixers can play decent half court defense when they are set up. With a team like the Sixers. who have good speed, there should never be easy shots for the other team other than long misses that fall into their hands.
When the Sixers are falling behind, it is invariably because they stop scoring, and the misses fuel easy offense for the other team. Watch the games and see what happens. They stop working the ball, they force up outside shots, they force a shot on the break that turns into a miss and an easy outlet pass for the other team. All it is, is a lack of discipline, and understanding. I want this team playing SMART basketball. Quick, informed decisions on which way to go with the ball, running the pick and roll the right way and making the pass when you're the one who's double-teamed.
Screw Eddie's offense. Run Andre around screens. Run Thad on the other side. Lou or Jrue or AI will find someone to pass to. Because if they're not open Brand and Sam will.
AS for Speights, never has a player been so disparaged or his play so distorted. He does rebound, he does block out. He blocks shots, he makes outlet passes off of defensive boards. He also reaches in, loses his man, or gets drawn out of position. But all of these things are correctable and I'm willing to live with a few mistakes since his scoring often makes up for it and his size helps on both ends. Seriously, Thad isn't ever going to have a chance of blocking out Perkins or Garnett, is he? Speights can. He already has in fact. So after playing so well, how do you suddenly give up on him?You got all excited just because Brand is getting back to being his normal self?
The most important thing for Speights is playing time, When he makes mistakes then you can show him the tape and get him to understand what he should have done. In order to be conscious of what's going on, you have to understand how they want you to play and how to play specific opponents. Mistakes are expected with young players. That doesn't mean you bench them.
And. The more bigs you put on the floor the better chance you have of seeing Thad at the 3 and Andre at the 2, which I think are their natural positions. I would have been fine with Smith as well. You have to be patient with young big men, and encourage and support them. You're asking them to play against more experienced players and one little mistake and you bench them?
Dalembert and Brand are good players, but it's not good to play them too many minutes. Sam often gets into foul trouble, and Brand did last night as well. You don't put in Smith and Speghts only when you get into trouble. They deserve playing time in order to develop.
Sam didn't look like the monster he was in the first quarter, in the fourth. Maybe giving him a little more rest would help at the end. The more time you give Speights and Smith the more they will learn and the better they will be. You can only learn so much by watching, it takes experience too. He has played well in the past, but I think he's out of rhythm, and the team has forgotten how to use him. Lack of playing time is the cause, than anything else. He deserves 10-15 min. minimum no matter what he does.
Sorry about the language, I get a little excited at times :-\
Speights is going where he's told to go. Sometimes he should be in the high post, and Brand in the low and vice-versa. I think this is more a lack of coaching than anything else. Some players get freezed out in this offense, because they're not playing smart ball. Specific plays should be called, like a post up for Speights in the low block. Then he knows to work for position and get ready for an entry pass. I'd love to see him and Iguodala or Williams in a 2-man game. The point is, take advantage of what he brings to the table in a half-court offense. When they're running, he fits right in anyway.
Speights percentage has gone down along with his playing time. You pull him quick after a missed shot or two and that WILL affect your stats, and not in a good way.
What is wrong with Speights and Dalembert? Nothing that I can see, but it's never on the floor. Could Smith and Brand work on the floor, or Smith and Dalembert? I'd like to see these things tried, but not by just throwing them out there.
I do like your finishing line-up. Sam has done a good job lately, but it you know it would be better for Speights to be taking those shots at the end.
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Well, we agree on a few points and we disagree on a few points.
I agree that the Sixers' problems are all about offense right now. I highly disagree that Speights is the solution. You say yourself that the Sixers start falling behind when they stop working the ball and force up outside shots. Well, Mo Speights is a black hole and forces shots up from anywhere. So by your very definition of what makes the offense stall, Speights should never see the court. I'm not sure the solution is on this roster. Brand is the only guy who gets aggressive on the offensive end. AI definitely helps too, and I think is a big reason why the Sixers have at least somewhat righted the ship. And I definitely didn't think he'd be helping when we signed him. Iggy needs to slash more and stop settling for those 20 foot jumpers. And there always needs to be more movement on the offensive end off the ball.
Speights does rebound and block out, he just doesn't do either particularly well for a C, and he gets outmuscled by a lot of PFs as well. Speights needs to show more effort on defense and on the boards and stop trying to prove his worth by taking a shot every time the ball hits his hands. I disagree that he needs playing time. Practice only makes perfect if you're practicing right. And he's definitely doing things wrong that are correctable outside of game situations. I'm not advocating giving him no playing time, I just see no reason right now to give him more than the 5-10 minutes he's getting.
Thad is a rangy 4 on offense, Iggy is a 3. We disagree with their natural positions.
Sam is getting too many minutes now, but it's more due to lack of other options than anything else. He's doing well all things considered. Ride him while he's hot, because we know the Sam we all love to hate will be back soon enough.
And here's the main point where we really agree: the coaching sucks. It seems like they do the opposite of putting players in positions to succeed. Lou and Mo were amazing on the pick and roll last year, what happened to that? Thad's at his best iso'd on the low block. Yet he'll sometimes only get one or two touches a game there. Kapono's at his best running his man through screens, yet when he's in the game, nobody does anything to get him free. It's a big problem with this team.
I also would like to see those lineup pairings.
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I agree that the Sixers' problems are all about offense right now.
The fact that they have one of the worst defensive paces in the league, bad defensive rebounding and bad 3 point defense are all things that will be fixed by offense?
Speights doesn't pass
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I agree that the Sixers' problems are all about offense right now.
The fact that they have one of the worst defensive paces in the league, bad defensive rebounding and bad 3 point defense are all things that will be fixed by offense?
Speights doesn't pass
Those are all things that won't be fixed without a few trades and/or a new coach.
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I agree that the Sixers' problems are all about offense right now.
The fact that they have one of the worst defensive paces in the league, bad defensive rebounding and bad 3 point defense are all things that will be fixed by offense?
Some people just don't like fundamentals. I guess they aren't 'sexy'.
We score plenty. In fact 98 PPG is a little more than what we scored last season, while winning 50% of our games. Yet while last year we GAVE UP that same amount...this year we went on to give up 101.5! 101.5!!
So we score the same...give up FOUR MORE POINTS...and our problems are OFFENSE. What the-?
(By the way...back in '01? We gave up ELEVEN less points than we do now. But SCREW THAT!! Shoot, fellas. Shoot!!)
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Those are all things that won't be fixed without a few trades and/or a new coach.
That's incorrect, the sixers were much better defensively last year, and contrary to popular (mainstream) opinon, andre miller sucks defensively
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Those are all things that won't be fixed without a few trades and/or a new coach.
That's incorrect, the sixers were much better defensively last year, and contrary to popular (mainstream) opinon, andre miller sucks defensively
Miller sucks defensively (you can't imagine how much shit I took from family and friends for having the gall to argue that Andre Miller wasn't the most important player on this team last year, and that he often wasn't helping very much because he was a sieve). AI is most likely worse. Lou is still running into screens like it's his job. Losing Evans actually hurt (I can't believe I actually typed that).
I was about to make a point that our lack of ability to rebound on the defensive end is what makes our defensive stats look worse, that it's not the defense but the fact that we don't rebound. However, I just looked up the stats, and we actually D-board very slightly better this year than we did last year. Go figure.
So, I was wrong. This defense is obviously capable of doing better than they are. Both the defense and the offense are very streaky, but after being presented with the stats, and looking up a few others, it does seem clear that the defense needs to step it up. Lesson learned.
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Losing Evans actually hurt (I can't believe I actually typed that).
I know it's bad form to say 'told you so'...so I won't.
But last year I was - to a man - the only one who appreciated that guy. But it wasn't so much his departure that killed me, it's the fact we DIDN'T REPLACE HIM.
I find myself looking at some of our line-ups (say, those with Thad as our 4...and our second tallest guy on the court)...and I project out towards a potential series with Orlando. Or the Cavs.
And I wince.
The disregard Ed and Eddie have for rebounding is astonishing. Defense too.
And they wonder why we're among the absolute worst teams in the league. ???
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I thought that Evans was replaced by Brand.
I think last night's performance against the Knicks proves my point completely. It was our offense that failed, and Speights was the best player on the team. In fact, he did everything well, except be a little late on some rotations, where Sam decided to switch.
A 4 is not a wide ranging player, by my definition. A 4 is a post-up scorer, and rebounder who stays within 15 feet of the basket. He has to be able to battle for position and want to get every rebound, particularly offensive ones. Thad is not that kind of a player, and Speights is. Thad isn't strong enough to box out big players, he allows the other team easy 2nd chance shots. That's a bad choice for the 4 spot.
Sam and Marreese actually compliment each other well. Sam is a better defender, and shot blocker, but Marreese is a natural scorer. As a tandem they present a big front which deters the other team driving the lane. Having players that clog the middle, slows the game down, and creates better opportunities for steals.
We keep complaining about the coach, which suggests you don't like what he's doing, But what would you do differently? I know that I'd start Dalembert and Speights with Young, Iguodala and Williams. I'd rotate in Brand, Carney, Holiday and Iverson and try to work Smith into the rotation as well. I think that gives us the most dynamic starting lineup and very good depth. I also think that if you keep Speights and Brand on the bench at the start of the game, your bench is stronger than your starting lineup.
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A bad, bad, bad loss. Not so much based on how it all played out, but more that we were looking for three in a row (woohoo!), against the KNICKS, at HOME. c'mon...this is ridiculous.
And Eddie was back to his usual:
Thad must have naked pictures of Eddie Jordan. Why so many minutes last night (and lately? He's sucked-it-up but good)? Why no Brand in the 1st; are you kidding? I get that he liked the Thad/Lee matchup...but how 'bout match-ups WE create? Speights needed more minutes, too. Why panic with Sammy's fouls and bring him back 2 minutes later than you should have in the 4th? Upon first SNIFF of a zone, you go to Kapono! I mean, why else do we even HAVE that stiff if not to discourage a zone??
But it wasn't all Eddie.
For my money, this particular game was lost at the foul line. Meaning - we NEVER GOT THERE! That shows me we didn't get the aggressiveness from AI, Iggy, Brand, Young, etc etc etc
And this team is in no position to play a crappo team like the Knicks SOFT.
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I thought that Evans was replaced by Brand.
Apparently, both you and Stefanski thought the same thing. And, unfortunately, you've both been proven wrong.
But what would you do differently?
I file reports here after almost every game. You should check them out. ;)
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Can somebody tell me why, exactly, we're missing Evans ?
Since we've been "proven" wrong, I'd like to know exactly how.
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Oh come on, Reggie Evans is hustle and energy and effort - so he obviously is a positive contribution when he's on the court - he's a defensive GEM and really knows how to get at it...
or something like that right?
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Because our remaining big men aren't physical enough.
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And that translates into what exactly?
We were god awful on the defensive glass last year as well.
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We were god awful on the defensive glass last year as well.
And if you look closely at it, evans didn't help on the defensively glass much - though he was awesome on the offensive glass (which i still contend has a lot to do with him sucking even from 2 feet and rebounding his own misses over and over :) )
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And last nights game was one of those games where the defensive glass really wasn't that bad.
Poor offensive set up to break the knicks zone and some questionable (lack of) defensive substitutions at the end of the game are where I'd look...
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I think it more fair not to bring up Evans after every game, and say "see? we rebounded!"
Overall, this year, I think we've suffered by a lack of physicality underneath. Is that our ONLY problem...no, of course not.
Last year Evans was one of the best rebounders in the league. To not replace him is a mistake. Simple as that, really.
No one is punished when they enter the lane, our clearing out sucks, and when Sam isn't in there...we get out-rebounded. (That last one is a guess...but I'm pretty confident that's the case.)
Our "bigs" just don't play physical. Thad is soft under there, Speights is nonexistent under there, and Brand brings little nastiness.
Plus - remember, I said we didn't REPLACE Evans; you both act as if I am petitioning for him to return. It's not a BAD thing to desire more boards. Since, ya know, they lead to points...and ultimately wins.
Just sayin'.
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Because our remaining big men aren't physical enough.
Elton Brand is a complete upgrade over Reggie Evans at the 4 spot. He is every bit as physical, a better rebounder and an infinitely better scorer.
Speights is a physical player as well, he can only help when he's on the floor.
Thad isn't physical enough, but that's not his fault.
We have the players. It's the damn coach!
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Elton Brand is a complete upgrade over Reggie Evans at the 4 spot. He is every bit as physical, a better rebounder and an infinitely better scorer.
Wrong. On every count.
A "better rebounder"? "More physical"? 1,000% wrong.
But here's the rub: Brand didn't REPLACE Evans. It's irrelevant, even if it were true. Or did you forget that we had them BOTH. The intention was to have BOTH on the roster. One left...and was not replaced.
Simple dimple.
Speights is a physical player as well,
...who doesn't rebound and can't defend. He's physical when looking for his own shot, which is constant.
Thad isn't physical enough, but that's not his fault.
What the f--? :D
How is that not his fault??
We have the players. It's the damn coach!
The coach sucks, yes. (Who do you think started this thread.) But you can never have enough players. And this squad (who you seem to be satisfied with) is a .500 team at best. It's been proven. Twice.
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Elton Brand is a complete upgrade over Reggie Evans at the 4 spot. He is every bit as physical, a better rebounder and an infinitely better scorer.
Wrong. On every count.
A "better rebounder"? "More physical"? 1,000% wrong.
But here's the rub: Brand didn't REPLACE Evans. It's irrelevant, even if it were true. Or did you forget that we had them BOTH. The intention was to have BOTH on the roster. One left...and was not replaced.
Simple dimple.
Speights is a physical player as well,
...who doesn't rebound and can't defend. He's physical when looking for his own shot, which is constant.
Thad isn't physical enough, but that's not his fault.
What the f--? :D
How is that not his fault??
We have the players. It's the damn coach!
The coach sucks, yes. (Who do you think started this thread.) But you can never have enough players. And this squad (who you seem to be satisfied with) is a .500 team at best. It's been proven. Twice.
Show me one season where Reggie Evan's out-rebounded Elton Brand(where both were playing? YOU can have any opinion you want but if it's garbage, I'm not going to listen. Brand is much more intimidating and physical. Brand scares people when he drives the lane, they figure Reggie will lose the ball while he drives. In fact talking about Reggie as a reason for any Sixer problem this year is absurd!
As of Thad, he is a skinny, tall kid all of 21 yrs. It's totally unreasonable to expect him to back with Kevin Garnett or Anderson Varajo. That's why it isn't his fault. Put him at the three spot and he can be as physical as any of them. Thad vs. Paul Pierce instead of KG!
Jordan is a complete idiot who doesn't do anything right. He's taken a 50- game team and turned into a basket-case, playing his best post-up player off the bench, playing a swing man in a power spot. Failing to develop his young bigs, even though one of them is a top 5 scoring big man on potential. All this team needs is a decent coach.
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Show me one season where Reggie Evan's out-rebounded Elton Brand(where both were playing?
You mean per minute, right?
Brand scares people when he drives the lane, they figure Reggie will lose the ball while he drives. In fact talking about Reggie as a reason for any Sixer problem this year is absurd!
1. Why the switcharoo to offense? Was that the topic?
2. Reggie as a reason? Is that what I said? Or did I say our refusal to REPLACE him? Hmmm?
As of Thad, he is a skinny, tall kid all of 21 yrs. It's totally unreasonable to expect him to back with Kevin Garnett or Anderson Varajo. That's why it isn't his fault. Put him at the three spot and he can be as physical as any of them. Thad vs. Paul Pierce instead of KG!
Thad's skinny-ness is why he doesn't WIN battles. It doesn't explain why he doesn't play physical.
Paul Pierce is huge, fyi.
Jordan is a complete idiot who doesn't do anything right. He's taken a 50- game team and turned into a basket-case, playing his best post-up player off the bench, playing a swing man in a power spot. Failing to develop his young bigs, even though one of them is a top 5 scoring big man on potential. All this team needs is a decent coach.
Right and wrong.
No one dislikes the job Eddie's done more than me. BUT that's not "all we need". Unless of course you WANT 41 wins. 'cause that's what you GOT with a different coach.
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How many power forwards do you need? Evans was a bad fit because he like Dalembert is somewhat offensively challenged. With the drafting of Speights and the aquistition of Brand, there was no reason to keep Reggie. Would you rather have him than Rodney Carney or Jason Smith or Primoz Bezec? And, would you be willing to not have Jason Kapono? Reggie was a nice energy player, but he's dumb as a box of rocks.
Thad is too thin to be a banger at this stage of his career, he uses his height and length well as a defender, but can't match up with 4's. That's not his fault, anymore than it's Iverson's fault that he can't guard Dwight Howard. Trying to make it work with Thad as a 4 is a mistake, and is simply bad coaching and bad strategy.
We're soft inside because Eddie Jordan plays Thad as a 4. Get It?
Start Speights or Brand with Dalembert and keep 2 bigs in the game at all times and we'll win most rebounding battles, control the paint and have good interior defense. It makes no sense that this team can beat the Celtics in their place and then lose to the Knicks at home. The only explanation is the coach. Some nights he gets lucky with who he puts on the floor, but forgets what works the very next game. That's why the team never gets better. The coach is just a moron. A good team is like a sports-car it needs a good driver to get it to the finish line, making the right turns when the conditions call for it. Eddie is the driver that crashes his car into a wall.
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How many power forwards do you need?
How many rebounds are you willing to give away.
Would you rather have him than Primoz Bezec? And, would you be willing to not have Jason Kapono?
You're kidding, right?
Thad is too thin to be a banger at this stage of his career, he uses his height and length well as a defender, but can't match up with 4's. That's not his fault, anymore than it's Iverson's fault that he can't guard Dwight Howard.
You're (still) not getting it. There is a difference between being tough (Iverson) and being big (Howard for example). Thad PLAYS SOFT. Get it? No matter what his goddamn size is.
Start Speights or Brand with Dalembert and keep 2 bigs in the game at all times and we'll win most rebounding battles,
Not if it's Speights we won't. His rebounding is sucko.
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Speights is a decent rebounder and is improving all the time. When he is on the floor with Dalembert or even Brand we usually win the rebounding battle. In fact, with 2 big men on the floor the Sixers are a good team, good enough to make the playoffs and save Eddie Jordan his job.
I still don't understand your problem with Thad. He's tough enough to try to defend bigger players, he's quicker than most of them, and just as long. He is an effective scorer and gets a lot of easy baskets because he's the fastest player on the floor. Once he rediscovers his outside shot, he's an all star player.
The worst thing about Eddie is that he plays Thad as a 4. That's the only thing really wrong with the team. He starts games this way, even against very big teams. The thing is, when it comes to rebounding having Thad in instead of Brand or Speights means that every 3rd time down the floor your giving up a rebound and or a score because Sam doesn't have help when he goes to block a shot. Thad can score enough to offset that, but there's no reason to concede those 2nd chance shots with this roster.
If you watched the game against Sacramento, you saw the Sixers play a good game and beat a good team soundly. They controlled the paint and shut them down, including Tyreke Evans and Kevin Martin. Thad had a great game.
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Speights is a decent rebounder and is improving all the time.
Agreed. My argument concerned Evans' rebounding and toughness...and how we didn't replace it. It's commentary on management, not our players.
When he is on the floor with Dalembert or even Brand we usually win the rebounding battle. In fact, with 2 big men on the floor the Sixers are a good team, good enough to make the playoffs and save Eddie Jordan his job.
Again - it's management. I've been chirping all year about line-ups and how (mostly early in the season) Jordan would have as few as ONE rebounder on the floor at a time. Mind boggling.
I still don't understand your problem with Thad. He's tough enough to try to defend bigger players, he's quicker than most of them, and just as long. He is an effective scorer and gets a lot of easy baskets because he's the fastest player on the floor. Once he rediscovers his outside shot, he's an all star player.
Pardon me if I don't share your enthusiasm for certain players on this team. Lately Thad has sucked at both ends. Love the guy; but he's lately been the worst Sixer on the floor at times. Some guys are pretty good...others decent...some (Kapono) suck the big one. You throw around terms like "elite", "all star" and "playoffs"...while I continue to watch one of the worst teams in the league night in and night out. For my money we're 6 years from 'elite', NOT a 'playoff team' and have no 'all stars'. Tomato/tomahto I suppose. We'll see how it all shakes out by season's end.
The worst thing about Eddie is that he plays Thad as a 4.
Well...the "worst" thing? Not sure about that. But it is ill-advised, for sure. I think he's trying to put out there the guys he thinks give us the best chance to win, with no regard for match-ups. Thad is a 3...yet so is our 'franchise player'. We have no point guard. No true back-up center. No shooting (now people realize what I was incensed about when we dumped Korver). If it were me I'd have Thad at the 3; Iggy at the 2; Lou at 1; Brand would start with Sam. Then you got Speights in for Sam, AI for Lou, Holiday, Green, Smith and Carney round it out. Kapono plays once every 2-3 games so he stays mentally sharp, and is reserved for extended minutes vs. a zone (ie. almost never).
But that's me.
If you watched the game against Sacramento, you saw the Sixers play a good game and beat a good team soundly.
The very definition of mediocrity. For every "sound win" against a decent club (the Kings are not one of them by the way), we have a sh*tty game against a terrible team. It will take ALOT more than that to get me as jazzed as you seem to be.
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I really like your proposed line-up. Had the Sixers done that from the beginning, I believe we'd have a better than .500 record now. As it is, we're actually 6-4 in our last 10 games, and while I think this is a product of the Sixers schedule, they've had some surprising successes as well as dismal failures. I have no confidence in Eddie whatsoever, and he may or may not have realized that he needs two big men in his line-up to win.
I think the key to the Sixers is having Andre at the 2 and Thad at the 3. That allows the Sixers to have them at the positions where they have a size advantage over their opponents, and more likely to outperform them. Thad is best when he can run the floor and Andre is at his best when he has team-mates to make plays with. Brand gives them that post-up player and Sam has been playing like a good center.
The problem is the Sixers don't play that line-up very often, and I'm not convinced that Eddie understands how important this is. As a result the team has only scratched the surface of it's true potential. So my optimism is guarded at best. Losing to the Knicks at home, is enough to dampen anyone's enthusiasm.
If we start playing Thad as a 3, we'll know that he's gotten it, but if he continues with the same starting line-up with Brand and Speights on the bench, it's time to fire Eddie. Simple as that.
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Another anti-Jordan article in the Inky today. This one veiled...but insinuates that the Sixers now compete because a- Eddie isn't so goofy with his substitutions (ie. there's a little more stability) and; b- defense.
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....aaaaand overtime.
Maybe the worst game of the year - win or lose. I can't say I care either way.
Where can I sign some sort of petition to get his ass outta here. Terrible substitutions, inexcusable third quarter. Time to fire the Ed's.
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That did it.
Why no AI in the OT? Or for the last :04 of regulation?
Why no Lou Will - seemingly at all - in the second goddamn half?
Why no Holliday for 'd' when their guard was undressing us?
WHY SO MUCH YOUNG???
Pssst: Green had only so much to give. Once he became not-hot...he was to be benched, dumb dumb.
Iggy chokes and stinks.
Why the long ball for most of that OT?
I f**king HATE Eddie Jordan, and I'm beginning to hate this spineless, sissy team we have. They don't deserve the energy I expend.
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This loss really should get Eddie fired. They end the first half with a 20 point lead and then once again they blow it to an inferior team. It's not a coincidence, it is bad coaching. It is amazing to me that he hasn't been fired yet. I mean Stafanski should have fired him before the press conference and said he just couldn't take it anymore.
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This loss really should get Eddie fired. They end the first half with a 20 point lead and then once again they blow it to an inferior team. It's not a coincidence, it is bad coaching. It is amazing to me that he hasn't been fired yet. I mean Stafanski should have fired him before the press conference and said he just couldn't take it anymore.
While I agree Rick (don't forget who started this thread) - the team doesn't deserve a free pass either. I mean Iggy, Lou, Young, Sam and Brand are getting plenty of minutes to win games.
I know, I know, Eddie needs to get the most of his guys during a long, 82-game season. I'm just saying...if these guys were fearless, and REFUSED TO LOSE, they'd overcome at least SOME of the crappy situations the coach puts them in. We all agree - he's completely incapable of leading them to victories they wouldn't have otherwise won. But, damn, in their last 5 losses (I believe) they held double-digit leads! How can pros do that so consistently?
I wish I had the time to figure out how many games we've lost by 4-5 points or less, and how many other games we blew with double-digit leads.
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maybe if we didn't run out a midget lineup and make Corey Brewer into a guy you have to double team because you put a guy 9" smaller on him we could hold a lead. Defense is the key to holding big leads, and we don't do that. and putting two incompetent perimeter defenders at the 1 and 2 and a guy seriously out of position at the 4 due to the coaches choice isn't helping.
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True.
But I wish I'd see some 'd' from our master defender, Thad Young, and more from Speights...and Lou Wil....and Brand...
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Unfortunately part of coaching is pulling your favorites and playing the players who deserve to play or should be playing based on how the players on the floor are doing.
Carney played well in the first half defensively, we were out to a big lead with him in there but he shot 0-5 and never saw time the second half. Holiday played well defensively in the first half and saw little time after the break. Carney could have helped with Brewer. I would prefer a 19 yo Holiday trying to stay in front of Flynn, then Lou, Green, or AI.
We finished the first half with Brand at C, Iguodala at PF, Carney at SF and Lou and Jrue at the guard positions. What was up with that lineup? You'd think someone was high or drunk to pull that lineup out of our roster.
Unfortunately we don't have a competent coach. Sure some problems lie with the players, but ultimately the coach is the one who picks who to play and when. He doesn't understand how to stop a run, all he thinks about is scoring. I think the "working on defense in practice" is lip service now. We had 3 good defensive efforts in a row, primarily because Sammy was dominant in those games and Jordan pronounced that we were slowly solving our defensive problems. Just like two weeks ago we were going uptown. Someone needs to stop this madness.
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True.
But I wish I'd see some 'd' from our master defender, Thad Young, and more from Speights...and Lou Wil....and Brand...
Anyone follow the career of Tim Thomas? Doesn't Thad Young remind you of him. Soft, poor/disinterested defender, terrible rebounder, etc. He would be one I would like to trade for a young center. DeAdre Jordan, or Anthony Randolph anyone?
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True.
But I wish I'd see some 'd' from our master defender, Thad Young, and more from Speights...and Lou Wil....and Brand...
Anyone follow the career of Tim Thomas? Doesn't Thad Young remind you of him. Soft, poor/disinterested defender, terrible rebounder, etc. He would be one I would like to trade for a young center. DeAdre Jordan, or Anthony Randolph anyone?
You might find that only I agree with your stance on Young.
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I think there's one major difference between Young and Thomas:
Motivation
I don't see effort or work being a problem with Young down the line. Because of that, i'm not going to dump him at the first sign of struggling. If I'm blown away and get a comparably talented player? Sure.
(I don't consider DeAndre Jordan that. At all. He's a "grass is always greener when he's not your incomplete young player" type of player. We'd kill him for his defense, shot selection and lack of focus)
I also wouldn't mind seeing him, you know, at something crazy, like his natural position.
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I am constantly looking for reasons to forgive Thad. I pull for him more than I pull for any other Sixer. And, yes, he's out of position. But I see - way too often - poor decisions, lack of intensity under the glass, trouble in traffic, getting beat off the dribble, etc etc to chalk it off to position. I'm confident he'd make those same errors whether he was in at the 5 or as our PG.
I recall him having a similar stretch last year as well, fwiw.
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I would expect him to have problems at both the 5 and the pg, yes.
And yes, I would expect a 20 year old (as he was last year) to go through stretches where he has problems.
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I would expect him to have problems at both the 5 and the pg, yes.
And yes, I would expect a 20 year old (as he was last year) to go through stretches where he has problems.
Yes, but, the problems I list have nothing to do with size, quickness or position: decisions, intensity and basic basketball fundamentals should be evident no matter one's age or height.
And the fact that he's 20 isn't comforting. He's now a pro: the playing field is level. These are his problems to fix; not mine.
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Right. No players improve with age and experience.
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Right. No players improve with age and experience.
They do. And that's fortunate for Thad.
And while I never said what you claim I said - I'd prefer Thad plays a few less minutes while he continues to occasionally hurt us.
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maybe if we didn't run out a midget lineup and make Corey Brewer into a guy you have to double team because you put a guy 9" smaller on him we could hold a lead. Defense is the key to holding big leads, and we don't do that. and putting two incompetent perimeter defenders at the 1 and 2 and a guy seriously out of position at the 4 due to the coaches choice isn't helping.
But we live in world were you don't need PG's and your best defenders are your best scorers. So when Green hits 5 shots in a row he's your defensive specialist.
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