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PhillyArena Community => NBA Discussion => Topic started by: Reality on June 07, 2007, 11:03:52 PM
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Looked like a preseason game by both teams.
Yes some good stretches, yes some very good individual plays at times.
Team ball? Not what i saw. Can count the good team ball possessions on one hand. After the Spurs pathetic collapse from up 20 to 8 and Cavs with ball, MeBron bounces it 14 times then tries a fadeaway trey. ::) Uh, nice D Spurs? Spurs did have some good team D in stretches. Hard to say tho with the Cavs pathetic O plan. Did someone say Brown was trained by Pop?
I hope both teams play better in 2.
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ugly game, but hey we are 3 wins away from the title. So I'll take it. The Spurs had a lot of rust on them but I expect them to get back to their old selves pretty soon.
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Attribute it to rust, they were off for a whole week. Defense was solid, Parker was amazing, the Spurs will win in 5 games.
Lebron is the real deal, guy has NO supporting cast. Maybe Gibson can give him that second scorer that he needs, but the Cavs need another All Star to win consistently in this league.
Dissapointed the Spurs didn't "black out" the arena. Why white tee's?
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Third vote for "rust". The problem for the Cavs is the Spurs are only going to get better as they find their rythm after so many days off.
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Rust? Give the Cavs props for trying to play D. There was nothing wrong with the Spurs shooting in the second half. All the second -tier punks for the Spurs were throwing in threes. The Spurs have a bit of trouble executing consistently against the Cavs, who cover the floor very well.
Cleveland had no answer for Parker or Duncan. Gooden had a few moments on the boards, but Ilgauskas disappeared. In the second half, the Cavs managed to get a few turnovers, but they were too few, too late.
Spurs smothering D does it again. Frankly, this is why everyone hates the Spurs- they destroy a transition game by sending defenders back early to block the lanes. This makes for slow, boring, basketball, but they do it very well. The thing that is amazing is that they shoot well enough and block out well enough to get away with it. Even on turnovers, you see Spurs running back and getting into position.
The Cavaliers couldn't shoot, except for Gibson, who got too few shots. Larry Hughes had a terrible game. Pavlovic was ok, and had the best block of the night on Tony Parker. Although it was a clean foul, Tony fell to the ground and Sasha rolled over the top of his head. Glad that Tony wasn't hurt.
Thought the refs did a terrible job of giving calls to the Spurs. So many out of bounds plays where the ball was awarded to the Spurs when it should have been the Cavs. So many reach in fouls that were never called. The flagrant on Gooden, was absurd. There was clearly no intent to harm, but their was an attempt to deceive on Manu's part. Punk-butt flop artist! When the Spurs made their run, every call went against the Cavs- a great way to bust another teams momentum, and another defining moment for the brain-dead boobs the NBA passes off as refs.
Game was fairly clean with very few fouls or the normal clutching and grabbing the Spurs like to do. NOTE TO THE LEAGUE: You abolished hand-checking, so why aren't you calling it?
Props the Spurs for defending LeBron, kept him from getting going for most of the game. A bit disappointed that Brown didn't prepare a better game plan, considering that he knows Pop's defense as well as anyone. Is there another team in the league that even comes close to the Spurs help defense on a star? They stopped Nash and Iverson with excellent schemes. LeBron is a bit bigger and stronger, but he has to try to force the issue, rather than wait for things to come to him, because they do such a good job of keeping him from a clear path to the basket.
They need the ball in someone else's hands to let LeBron run through screens and picks without the ball, and then get it to him in scoring postion.
Cave were too far down at the end of the third to come back against the Spurs, but made a good try at it anyway. But in spite of outscoring the Spurs, they were able to hold them off at the end.
Cleveland didn't play well enough to deserve to win- outside of Gibson no-one was hitting outside shots. Spurs outrebounded the Cavs as well.
Only positive is that Cleveland can play much better than they did, and they were a bit ill prepared for the pressure of being in an NBA finals. They do have some positives to work on and time to prepare for game 2. They can make this into a series, IMO, but so far the Spurs are too much for them.
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Third vote for "rust". The problem for the Cavs is the Spurs are only going to get better as they find their rythm after so many days off.
Yea the execution was not quite there. Have to agree it was a little bit of rust. As the game went on in the 3rd and 4th they started to look like they were getting some of that back. The defense was still there though and that is why they are such a consistant team.
The Cavs tried to play defense but the keyword is still 'tried' Rick. I am not saying they did a bad job but they certainly did not do a good job. Especially on the backboard. At one point I think they were shooting somewhere around 35% yet were only down by single digits. If they wouldn't have allowed the Spurs so many extra attempts in the 3rd they wouldn't have taken over the game. They had a legit shot at this game and about as poor a first half as they could ask for from the Spurs.
And since no one wants to say it, I will. 14 points and 4 assists 4 for 16 in a finals game is not Michael Jordan-esque and piss poor by any stars standards. I say give Bruce Bowen props for that but Bron seemed to not attack the rim on his own. He is just too strong to have Bruce Bowen force him into shooting jump shots. This would have been one pathetic game if Drew Gooden didn't hustle his rear end off.
Any Spurses care to speak on the acting job by Manu when he was fouled by Drew Gooden?
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Rust? Give the Cavs props for trying to play D. There was nothing wrong with the Spurs shooting in the second half. All the second -tier punks for the Spurs were throwing in threes. The Spurs have a bit of trouble executing consistently against the Cavs, who cover the floor very well.
Cleveland had no answer for Parker or Duncan. Gooden had a few moments on the boards, but Ilgauskas disappeared. In the second half, the Cavs managed to get a few turnovers, but they were too few, too late.
Spurs smothering D does it again. Frankly, this is why everyone hates the Spurs- they destroy a transition game by sending defenders back early to block the lanes. This makes for slow, boring, basketball, but they do it very well. The thing that is amazing is that they shoot well enough and block out well enough to get away with it. Even on turnovers, you see Spurs running back and getting into position.
The Cavaliers couldn't shoot, except for Gibson, who got too few shots. Larry Hughes had a terrible game. Pavlovic was ok, and had the best block of the night on Tony Parker. Although it was a clean foul, Tony fell to the ground and Sasha rolled over the top of his head. Glad that Tony wasn't hurt.
Thought the refs did a terrible job of giving calls to the Spurs. So many out of bounds plays where the ball was awarded to the Spurs when it should have been the Cavs. So many reach in fouls that were never called. The flagrant on Gooden, was absurd. There was clearly no intent to harm, but their was an attempt to deceive on Manu's part. Punk-butt flop artist! When the Spurs made their run, every call went against the Cavs- a great way to bust another teams momentum, and another defining moment for the brain-dead boobs the NBA passes off as refs.
Game was fairly clean with very few fouls or the normal clutching and grabbing the Spurs like to do. NOTE TO THE LEAGUE: You abolished hand-checking, so why aren't you calling it?
Props the Spurs for defending LeBron, kept him from getting going for most of the game. A bit disappointed that Brown didn't prepare a better game plan, considering that he knows Pop's defense as well as anyone. Is there another team in the league that even comes close to the Spurs help defense on a star? They stopped Nash and Iverson with excellent schemes. LeBron is a bit bigger and stronger, but he has to try to force the issue, rather than wait for things to come to him, because they do such a good job of keeping him from a clear path to the basket.
They need the ball in someone else's hands to let LeBron run through screens and picks without the ball, and then get it to him in scoring postion.
Cave were too far down at the end of the third to come back against the Spurs, but made a good try at it anyway. But in spite of outscoring the Spurs, they were able to hold them off at the end.
Cleveland didn't play well enough to deserve to win- outside of Gibson no-one was hitting outside shots. Spurs outrebounded the Cavs as well.
Only positive is that Cleveland can play much better than they did, and they were a bit ill prepared for the pressure of being in an NBA finals. They do have some positives to work on and time to prepare for game 2. They can make this into a series, IMO, but so far the Spurs are too much for them.
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I don't quite get why you are so anti-spur. I am not thinking you are going to jump on the band wagon or anything like that but even in the face of GOOD basketball you seem to want to pick team that is not at the level that the Spurs are at. Yes, the Cavs are in the finals, but Lebron does NOT have the supporting cast that Tim does in Manu, Tony, Bruce, and the rest of our squad. Our team plays TEAM basketball, we are not selfish, we are not hoggin the ball, if someone does catch fire we will go to them, but take your pick of Tim, Tony or Manu and see if we go to that person every game. We Don't. "...second tier punks..." Our bench is better than most benches in the league so how are our guys "punks"? Hey, it's your opinion, I respect that, but it just seems odd that you seem to have a chip on your shoulder for this team. In any case, if the Cavs have some kind of "moral victory" for coming back and playing hard against us - big deal - they still lost game, and soon enough, the series as well.
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Plus the Spurs bench shooting sucked bad last night. Outside of the Big Threes healthy 27-52, the bench (well "support") was about 7-23. Spurs support rarely sucks that bad. So while the Lebrons will certainly improve, so will the Spurs bench shooting.
Cavs were exact opposite. Eliminate Lebron and Zs combined 5-24 and they smoked at 25-46. Doubt either Lebron or the support do that again, more power to the Cavs bench if they do. Certainly Gibson is gonna get shots over Larry Hughes. Then again, Coach Brown was taught O by Coach Pop. :D
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Actually I found it to be a very entertaining game. There was lots of solid team defense; exciting plays to the rim by both teams and exciting plays sprinkled throughout the game. IMO that was one of the best displays by two teams of solid team defense that there has been in a long time. Mainly the Cavs were just overwhelmed because the Spurs keep coming at you with three different attacks...Duncan, Parker & Ginobili.
The mini-run in the first half where the Cavs took the lead was misleading. Both Duncan & Parker were on the bench and the Spurs had no one except Manu on the floor to create offense. When the Cavs could focus on stopping just one of the Tres Grande they were successful. Which brings me to this point: there should be 3 co-MVPs after (if?) the Spurs win.
As far as the boring pace, Rick...it had very little to do with the Spurs transition defense and more to do with James or Hughes pounding the ball for 12-15 seconds each possession before trying to run a play. The Spurs played the same transition defense against Denver & Phoenix and the scores weren't in the low 80s. The Cavs have no offense so their game plan is to slow the game down as much as possible, play solid defense to stay close, and let LeBron win the game in the last couple minutes.
And I'm not sure why the Spurs hitting 3 pointers would surprise anyone. They lead the postseason in 3 pt % and were in the top 3 for the regular season. There is a reason they call it an inside-out style of play.
Reality...the "collapse" from 18 to 9 reminded me of the Jazz series. It is almost as if the Spurs say halfway through the 4th quarter..."we are up by 20 and proved we can win so let's turn it back down a notch". Once it was cut to 9 the Spurs answered every basket. And if what it takes for Cleveland to make a run is for Lebron to dribble 15 seconds and hoist a 3 then I'm sure Pop will go with the percentages and let that be Cleveland's main play.
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Another view....
SAN ANTONIO -- 85-76? Yawn. Look just at the final score of this one and you might think it was a real clunker.
Yes, there were moments of clunkiness, but look a little deeper and you'll see the offenses didn't really perform that badly. San Antonio, in fact, was quite good. The Spurs scored 85 points in 80 possessions, for an offensive efficiency mark of 106.3 -- which is actually better than the Spurs' playoff average of 105.9, believe it or not.
More surprisingly, Cleveland didn't fare too badly, either. The Cavs had 76 points on 79 possessions for an offensive efficiency rating of 96.2. That's bad, yes, but hardly off the charts -- for instance, Miami was considerably worse during its four-game sweep at the hands of Chicago.
So why was the game so numbingly low-scoring? It's all about the pace. Look at those possession numbers again. The Cavs had 79 trips! That's amazing -- even the snail-like Pistons, the league's slowest-paced team, averaged 88.2 possessions per game during the postseason.
But wait -- weren't there 20 fast-break points scored in this game? Didn't Manu Ginobili dribble through a guy's legs in the open court? It wasn't like the teams seemed afraid to run, right?
Yes. However, when they didn't run, they ground things to a screeching halt. It's telling that it took 23 seconds before the game's first shot went up -- the whole night was like that. The teams routinely ran the shot clock down to single digits, most notably Cleveland while running its have-LeBron-dribble-aimlessly-at-the-top-of-the-key play.
"There were times when he would just pound, pound, pound, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble," Cavs coach Mike Brown said.
And to make matters worse, many of the combined 24 offensive rebounds (including two "team rebounds" by the Spurs, a stat the NBA currently sweeps under the rug) were resets, with the rebounder bringing the ball back out rather than going up for a quick shot.
All told, then, each possession in this game took an eternity. Consider that to finish a game with only 159 combined trips, the average possession by both teams has to last just over 18 seconds.
San Antonio did a lot of the damage in that department. Thanks to all the offensive boards they pulled back out, the Spurs had four trips that lasted 38 seconds or longer. Included in that total was a mammoth 48-second possession in the third quarter when they pulled out offensive rebounds twice.
With all those long possessions, no wonder the score stayed so low. But don't blame it on bad offense. Just call it long offense. If the pace picks up in Game 2, so will the scoring ... even if the shooting doesn't. And despite the fact that neither team is a run-and-gun outfit, it seems this game was an extreme outlier in terms of pace. So expect a more normal rate of shots on Sunday; hopefully a few more points will come with it.
-- John Hollinger
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As far as the boring pace, Rick...it had very little to do with the Spurs transition defense and more to do with James or Hughes pounding the ball for 12-15 seconds each possession before trying to run a play. The Spurs played the same transition defense against Denver & Phoenix and the scores weren't in the low 80s. The Cavs have no offense so their game plan is to slow the game down as much as possible, play solid defense to stay close, and let LeBron win the game in the last couple minutes.
I disagree, Lurker. What is keeping them pounding the ball for 12-15 seconds is the Spurs defense. The Cavs were completely unprepared for this and I blame their coach. To get easy baskets against the Spurs, you have to use their aggressiveness against them. They play team defense, to overcome that you need team offense.
On the opposite end, the Cavs never found a way to stop any of the Spurs. Yes, good individual effort, but no containment of Parker. If you can't stop him from penetrating you can't win.
And, SpursX3- I have the deepest respect for the Spurs. They do nearly everything right when it comes to both offense and defense. Excellent discipline and sound fundamental play. My only objection is the chippiness sp? and the flopping. The Spurs don't need to resort to that crap and it diminishes the quality of their play.
The punk comment comes from observation, and my bias against the Spurs. Ever notice how that even when they can't shoot when the game is tight, how readily they bomb away from 3 point land when the other team is down? It is the right way to play, but something about it seems so cheesy....
My anger is really directed at the refs. They let San Antonio get away with all kinds of crap on the defensive end. The charge on LeBron was bogus. The player that trapped him wasn't in postion for long enough- and it should have been a block. Everytime the Cavs lost the ball it was because a Spur reached in and no foul was called. It's more than good defense, when there's contact on a reach in, but the refs aren't distinguishing that.
Technically what the Spurs are doing is illegal when they send three men to trap like that. It isn't a zone and it isn't man to man. All they do is disrupt the other teams offense by getting in the way. It is what makes the game ugly, and also what enables the Spurs to win.
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I disagree, Lurker. What is keeping them pounding the ball for 12-15 seconds is the Spurs defense. The Cavs were completely unprepared for this and I blame their coach. To get easy baskets against the Spurs, you have to use their aggressiveness against them. They play team defense, to overcome that you need team offense.
No it IS the Cavs offense. I HAVE watched some of the EC games and that has been the Cavs offense the entire post season: slow the pace as much as possible; play tight team defense; hope LBJ can win a tight game down the stretch. It is why the Wizards even shorthanded made the Cavs look beatable, why NJ was able to hang with them and why a dysfunctional Piston team stayed in the hunt.
Knowing that they will stand and pound the ball for so long just makes the team defense of the Spurs look better. Another factor is Bowen's strength...denying his man the ball. Bruce makes the player work harder to get the ball and then catch it outside of their comfort zone. Go back and watch tapes of the Pistons/Cavs series if you can. LBJ catches the ball 5-7 feet closer to the basket than he did last night.
On the opposite end, the Cavs never found a way to stop any of the Spurs. Yes, good individual effort, but no containment of Parker. If you can't stop him from penetrating you can't win.
So if they stop Parker do they let Duncan or Manu beat them? It is the same problem every team this postseason has with the Spurs...you can't stop all 3.
My anger is really directed at the refs. They let San Antonio get away with all kinds of crap on the defensive end. The charge on LeBron was bogus. The player that trapped him wasn't in postion for long enough- and it should have been a block. Everytime the Cavs lost the ball it was because a Spur reached in and no foul was called. It's more than good defense, when there's contact on a reach in, but the refs aren't distinguishing that.
They called the same game on both ends as far as reaching in and contact. LBJ ran over Manu on the charge...it was as clear as day. Also I recall someone commenting that whining about the refs was _______!
Technically what the Spurs are doing is illegal when they send three men to trap like that. It isn't a zone and it isn't man to man. All they do is disrupt the other teams offense by getting in the way. It is what makes the game ugly, and also what enables the Spurs to win.
WOW! I thought part of the game was to play defense and disrupt the other team's offense. If you aren't going to do that you might as well just run layup drills and judge the winner on how many Sprites they sell.
As far as being illegal...the only illegal defense is being in the lane 3 seconds without an offensive player within reach. If you overload 3 guys to one side of the court AND THE OFFENSE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO ROTATE THE BALL TO THE OTHER SIDE then you have done your job defensively. What made the game "ugly" was James' insistance (don't blame him) of going 1 on 5.
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So if they stop Parker do they let Duncan or Manu beat them? It is the same problem every team this postseason has with the Spurs...you can't stop all 3.
Parker is the key, because he's the one that gets all the others involved. Timmy can get his and the Cavs can win. Even Manu can make some plays and the Cavs can win. It is Parker that you have to stop- and it should be done in the same way the Spurs did to trap AI and Nash. It is the role players- the Finleys and the Horry's that rely on Parker to get outside shots. You stop Parker, you can stop the Spurs.
As far as being illegal...the only illegal defense is being in the lane 3 seconds without an offensive player within reach. If you overload 3 guys to one side of the court AND THE OFFENSE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO ROTATE THE BALL TO THE OTHER SIDE then you have done your job defensively. What made the game "ugly" was James' insistance (don't blame him) of going 1 on 5.
That isn't correct, if all the defensive players are on one side of the court, and only half of the offensive players are, that IS ILLEGAL!!!! The NBA has made the interpretation of the rules so complicated that the refs don't call it, or even recognize it, but it is in fact, illegal.
If you look at the stats, the one thing that is clear is that the Spurs controlled the boards- something I did not expect. And Ilgauskas, Hughes and James all had bad games. Ilgauskas in particular played without passion or aggression and it killled the Cavs game. The Spurs outhustled the Cavs and got every long rebound. I was surprised that the rest of the Cavs shot reasonably well.
Brown need to do a lot of thinking and establish some plays for the offense. Part of this is that the players simply need to hit their open shots, but they need to develop plays to get inside. I'm not sure if the Cavs are skilled enough passers to make the quick decisions needed to break down the Spurs. One of the reasons they're so effective is that other teams aren't used to playing against it. The other thing is you have to be physical with the Spurs to get them out of their comfort zone. The Cavs didn't put a body on anyone, and they have to in order to win.
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As far as being illegal...the only illegal defense is being in the lane 3 seconds without an offensive player within reach. If you overload 3 guys to one side of the court AND THE OFFENSE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO ROTATE THE BALL TO THE OTHER SIDE then you have done your job defensively. What made the game "ugly" was James' insistance (don't blame him) of going 1 on 5.
That isn't correct, if all the defensive players are on one side of the court, and only half of the offensive players are, that IS ILLEGAL!!!! The NBA has made the interpretation of the rules so complicated that the refs don't call it, or even recognize it, but it is in fact, illegal.
Rick...here is the only defensive foul rule in the OFFICIAL NBA RULE BOOK. Your interpretation goes back to the pre-zone days. If you want to zone up all 5 guys on one side of the court you can. There is NO rule that says you can't have more defenders than offensive players in one area. Keep hoping though...maybe you will find something to support your hate of the Spurs.
Section VIII-Defensive Three-Second Rule
a. The count starts when the offensive team is in control of the ball in the front-court.
b. Any defensive player, who is positioned in the 16-foot lane or the area extending 4 feet past the lane endline, must be actively guarding an opponent within three seconds. Actively guarding means being within arms length of an offensive player and in a guarding position.
c. Any defensive player may play any offensive player. The defenders may double-team any player.
d. The defensive three-second count is suspended when: (1) there is a field goal attempt, (2) there is a loss of team control, (3) the defender is actively guarding an opponent or (4) the defender completely clears the 16-foot lane.
e. If the defender is guarding the player with the ball, he may be located in the 16-foot lane. This defender is not required to be in an actively guarding/arms dis-tance position. If another defender actively guards the player with the ball, the original defender must actively guard an opponent or exit the 16-foot lane. Once the offensive player passes the ball, the defender must actively guard an opponent or exit the 16-foot lane.
PENALTY: A technical foul shall be assessed. The offensive team retains pos-session at the free throw line extended. The shot clock shall remain the same as when play was interrupted or reset to 14 seconds, whichever is greater.
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Reality...the "collapse" from 18 to 9 reminded me of the Jazz series. It is almost as if the Spurs say halfway through the 4th quarter..."we are up by 20 and proved we can win so let's turn it back down a notch". Once it was cut to 9 the Spurs answered every basket. And if what it takes for Cleveland to make a run is for Lebron to dribble 15 seconds and hoist a 3 then I'm sure Pop will go with the percentages and let that be Cleveland's main play.
Not every one. I'll agree with you but up until the point of 80-72 and then Parker turned it over. 1:30 left in game Cavs ball. Still plenty of time. Cleveland hits a 2 there and its a 6 point game and the choke is on altho the Spurs certainly may have responded. Instead it's here Lebron does one of his 14 dribble trey hoists. Clank, Duncan dunks on the other end and 10pts and over. Very scary to me Lurker they let it get to that possession, altho yes the game was never in absolute danger.
Both Duncan & Parker were on the bench and the Spurs had no one except Manu on the floor to create offense.
Nooo. Lurker recheck the play by play. Duncan and Parker both certainly were in for a good part of the 20-15 to 22-25 disasterous 8-10 minutes. Spurs went like 1-10 in that stretch with some idiotic turnovers. Only Clevelands lame O and turning it back to the Spurs kept it that close. That 10 minutes was pure preseason rec league ball. Rust is no excuse whatsoever.
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Reality...the "collapse" from 18 to 9 reminded me of the Jazz series. It is almost as if the Spurs say halfway through the 4th quarter..."we are up by 20 and proved we can win so let's turn it back down a notch". Once it was cut to 9 the Spurs answered every basket. And if what it takes for Cleveland to make a run is for Lebron to dribble 15 seconds and hoist a 3 then I'm sure Pop will go with the percentages and let that be Cleveland's main play.
Not every one. I'll agree with you but up until the point of 80-72 and then Parker turned it over. 1:30 left in game Cavs ball. Still plenty of time. Cleveland hits a 2 there and its a 6 point game and the choke is on altho the Spurs certainly may have responded. Instead it's here Lebron does one of his 14 dribble trey hoists. Clank, Duncan dunks on the other end and 10pts and over. Very scary to me Lurker they let it get to that possession, altho yes the game was never in absolute danger.
Cleveland didn't score...so my statement stands. The Spurs answered every score once the game was cut to single digits. The game NEVER got down to 6 or 5 or closer.
Both Duncan & Parker were on the bench and the Spurs had no one except Manu on the floor to create offense.
Nooo. Lurker recheck the play by play. Duncan and Parker both certainly were in for a good part of the 20-15 to 22-25 disasterous 8-10 minutes. Spurs went like 1-10 in that stretch with some idiotic turnovers. Only Clevelands lame O and turning it back to the Spurs kept it that close. That 10 minutes was pure preseason rec league ball. Rust is no excuse whatsoever.
Don't have time right now but I will check. I distinctly remember that stretch where the Spurs stopped scoring and the announcers talking up the Cavs defense. I turned to my wife and said "but Parker & Duncan are on the bench". Then they both re-entered the game and the Spurs quickly went on a 10-2 run and went back up by 5. Problem is the play-by-play don't list when the players check in & out of the game.
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Lurker, the Spurs are violating clause E of those rules.
By the way I hate zone defense with a passion. It used to be illegal in the NBA, and they changed the rules because the players are so inferior to the good old days.
The older fans here remember all the Celtics and Lakers teams that were able to play very physical ball and effective defence, without using a zone.
But the Spurs have taken the use of the zone to the next level- a level at which if the NBA has any brains will ban. It is bad for basketball fans everywhere- and much much worse in it's own way than the Detroit bad-boy teams of the late 80's.
If other teams start emulating this aspect of the Spurs people will stop watching. It destroys the flow of the game, because people simply get in the way of the ball handler.
The Spurs bend the rules on both offense and defense. Moving screens, illegal picks all the dirty tricks in the book. If I was a Spurs fan I would love it, but I'm a fan of the NBA. IMO, the league has ruined the game by expanding too far, and reducing the talent level too thinly. Any team from the 80's would destroy this Spurs team with no problem at all. It used to take 4 all-stars to win with a bunch of solid role players to take the Championship. Now, it takes only 1 with some above-average role players.
There could never be a showtime Lakers against the Spurs transition D as the rules currently stand. In the old days, under the old rules, they wouldn't stand a chance.
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Congrats Spurs fans, the fact that people are whining about the officials and "dirty" play of your team only cements your status as a perennial powerhouse and dynasty. I'm glad to see this type of pathetically biased fan behavior isn't limited to being directed at the Lakers. Welcome to the club and enjoy your stay ... it looks like you could be there for plenty longer 8)
By the way I hate zone defense with a passion. It used to be illegal in the NBA, and they changed the rules because the players are so inferior to the good old days.
Wrong! They changed it because of Shaq. But you are right that the zone D sucks in the NBA, so you've got that going for you ;)
<edited for spelling>
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Lurker, the Spurs are violating clause E of those rules.
e. If the defender is guarding the player with the ball, he may be located in the 16-foot lane. This defender is not required to be in an actively guarding/arms distance position. If another defender actively guards the player with the ball, the original defender must actively guard an opponent or exit the 16-foot lane. Once the offensive player passes the ball, the defender must actively guard an opponent or exit the 16-foot lane.
The key in this rule Rick is the "16 foot lane". You know that painted area around the basket. You can have all 5 players on the same side of the court as long as no one is inside the lane for more than 3 seconds. And all you have to do is step out and you can go back in.
By the way I hate zone defense with a passion. It used to be illegal in the NBA, and they changed the rules because the players are so inferior to the good old days.
The older fans here remember all the Celtics and Lakers teams that were able to play very physical ball and effective defence, without using a zone.
But the Spurs have taken the use of the zone to the next level- a level at which if the NBA has any brains will ban. It is bad for basketball fans everywhere- and much much worse in it's own way than the Detroit bad-boy teams of the late 80's.
If other teams start emulating this aspect of the Spurs people will stop watching. It destroys the flow of the game, because people simply get in the way of the ball handler.
Rick the adding of the zone eliminated one-on-one isolation. Along with other rule changes the league for the most part is higher scoring.
If you watch closely the Spurs don't play a zone that often. Most often they will after a timeout when there is only 8-10 seconds on the shot clok to catch the opponent off guard. They play a very active man to man defense. There are definate assignments that they match up with every time the set up their defense. They are constantly forcing the ball handler into the side lines and the base line where they can be doubled. The Spurs are constantly doubling the other teams best player. (Think back at the other series...stars get their points but work hard for them.) The others rotate quickly to cover. They will switch on pick & rolls or the big man will "show" then retreat to cover the pick setter. The other strong aspect of the Spurs is transition defense. It was designed to stop teams that like to run in transition. They also limit their opponents opportunities to run. Low turnovers on average, high effeciency on offense.
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Congrats Spurs fans, the fact that people are whining about the officials and "dirty" play of your team only cements your status as a perennial powerhouse and dynasty. I'm glad to see this type of pathetically biased fan behavior isn't limited to being directed at the Lakers. Welcome to the club and enjoy your stay ... it looks like you could be there for plenty longer 8)
By the way I hate zone defense with a passion. It used to be illegal in the NBA, and they changed the rules because the players are so inferior to the good old days.
Wrong! They changed it because of Shaq. But you are right that the zone D sucks in the NBA, so you've got that going for you ;)
<edited for spelling>
Thanks MSC,
you know i was thinking about something along the same lines today as I was driving home. Our city is not putting up all the decoration we did in previous years in regard to the playoffs and being in the finals. I mean look at Cleveland. They put a 10 story banner with Lebron on it along the highway. Thats just ONE thing they have done for the finals - that's something a city does when they have not been to the big show, or have not been there in a LONG time. I just thought this must be the mentality the Laker fans had back in the day. I have seen a few old signs hanging around, maybe some home made stuff, but nothing that somebody really shelled out some cash for. I think we got into that mind set around here that we are just not going to lose this. man if you'll could here the local talk radio today about last nights game....man, I almost feel sorry for the Cavs and their fans...almost ;)