Author Topic: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm  (Read 10246 times)

Offline Skates

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2008, 10:33:28 PM »
Like I said earlier in the thread, it seemed like the big men (minus brand) just weren't getting the minutes tonight - Mo went small a lot?

Except at the start of the game and start of the third quarter Cheeks went with one big at a time.  Mostly Brand with Reggie filling in.  Sammy = stupid fouls and grabbing a seat on the bench.

It is very clear that there is a disconnect between Miller and the rest of the team.  His defense is horrid as well.  2 assists tonight, pathetic.

Fix team:

Move Miller
Move Sammy
At least think about changing coaches

Offline rickortreat

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2008, 10:55:04 PM »
Definitely thinking the right way Skates!

Problem is the way they are playing who would want them?  It's not like their contracts are expiring soon, and they look BAD on the floor.

jemagee

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2008, 10:57:19 PM »
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Problem is the way they are playing who would want them?  It's not like their contracts are expiring soon, and they look BAD on the floor.

Andre Milers contract expires this year - not soon enough for you?

Offline tk76-

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2008, 11:06:31 PM »
This is what I posted at realgm.  ignore if you read it already there:
A few observations from that wacky game- applies to Atl game as well:

1. It takes an immense amount of work and energy to fight back from that kind of deficit.

2. It takes an immense amount of luck and lack of focus/winners mentality from your opponent to come back from that kind of deficit.

3. It takes poor preparation (coaches and players) to get blown out so soundly in the first 15 minutes. They played like they did not expect to see what the Pacer offense and defense would throw at them.

4. This team still really struggles with Sam and Brand on the floor together.

5. This team really thrives when Thad is at PF and Iguodala at SF (at least when the Sixers go small.) Not a long term answer, but clearly the case at this point.

6. How lucky are we to get to watch Young develop into a star? I hope he has the coaching and support to help him reach his star potential. He clearly is doing all the right things, but he needs support from the Sixers organization- management, coaches and teammates to reach his full potential. They cannot mess up this kids development, because this team ultimately goes as far as Thad takes them.

7. Iguodala, Miller, Sam, Evans and Lou are all performing worse than last year, and all seem lost some or all of the time they ae on the floor. I do not think it is for lack of effort. These players and coaches need to get them into some kind of comfort level.

Offline bebopdeluxe

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2008, 11:45:10 PM »
Like I said earlier in the thread, it seemed like the big men (minus brand) just weren't getting the minutes tonight - Mo went small a lot?

Except at the start of the game and start of the third quarter Cheeks went with one big at a time.  Mostly Brand with Reggie filling in.  Sammy = stupid fouls and grabbing a seat on the bench.

It is very clear that there is a disconnect between Miller and the rest of the team.  His defense is horrid as well.  2 assists tonight, pathetic.

Fix team:

Move Miller
Move Sammy
At least think about changing coaches

+1.  Perfect post.

Hard to believe how well Green is playing right now.  Had one of his "old" shooting games, but still contributed very strongly to the W.  Thik we'll see this lineup of Miller/WG/Thad/Iggy/EB a lot...at least until Speights is ready to upset that applecart.  It's nice to not have to wrestle with the whole "can Iguodala play the 2" thing...he had a great game at the 3.

Thad is ridiculous.

Offline Skates

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2008, 01:49:18 AM »
Follow-up on tk's points:

A few observations from that wacky game- applies to Atl game as well:

1. It takes an immense amount of work and energy to fight back from that kind of deficit.

Yes, but the main thing is that it takes defense which is what brought them back tonight.  There has been too much emphasis on hwther we are a running team or a half-court team this year and the offensive struggles.  If they play great defense they will win a lot of games, plain and simple.  It will stop the other team from scoring at will, allow us to run and energize the team.  We have more legitamate half-court weapons once we figure out how to use them also, so the more possessions we can get on steals and blocks, the better we will score.

2. It takes an immense amount of luck and lack of focus/winners mentality from your opponent to come back from that kind of deficit.

I always thought O'Brien's offense was a gimmick when he was here and in Boston.  Tonight did not change my opinion.

3. It takes poor preparation (coaches and players) to get blown out so soundly in the first 15 minutes. They played like they did not expect to see what the Pacer offense and defense would throw at them.

Yes, our coaching is in over its collective head.

4. This team still really struggles with Sam and Brand on the floor together.

It screws up the spacing around Brand because Sam has no offensive skills away from the rim and he is not much of a screener, at least Reggie can do that, plus he has no basketball brain.

5. This team really thrives when Thad is at PF and Iguodala at SF (at least when the Sixers go small.) Not a long term answer, but clearly the case at this point.

This may go back more to number 4.  It also may have something to do with WG being in the game then.

6. How lucky are we to get to watch Young develop into a star? I hope he has the coaching and support to help him reach his star potential. He clearly is doing all the right things, but he needs support from the Sixers organization- management, coaches and teammates to reach his full potential. They cannot mess up this kids development, because this team ultimately goes as far as Thad takes them.

Very, very lucky.

7. Iguodala, Miller, Sam, Evans and Lou are all performing worse than last year, and all seem lost some or all of the time they ae on the floor. I do not think it is for lack of effort. These players and coaches need to get them into some kind of comfort level.

Evans I would disagree on, he does what is asked/needed of him within his abilities.  Tonight was not a good match-up for him, if Speights was not going to play I might have played Marshall as a big against the plodding big men and generally perimeter oriented game of the Pacers.  Lou has been told to take shots and take the ball to the rim so much (at least that is what they say on every broadcast) that he seems to forget he has teammates to whom he might consider passing the ball.  Miller and Brand don't fit, plus Miller is quite obviously out of shape.  Sam can't handle stuff more complicated than a running game with lobs to him and high presure defensive units where he lays back to block shots and rebound.  I really don't see much hope for Miller and Sam, at least we have Speights to eventually displace Sam from the starting line-up.

Offline tk76-

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2008, 09:12:17 AM »
I think you are right about the defense sparking the offense.  I'm just disappointed that the defensive pairing of Sam and Brand has not been more effective.  I really thought that would be a great frontcourt that could effectively turn teams away from the lane like the good Piston and Spur's teams.  This would create lots of longrebounds and running opportunities.  Maybe its still will?

BTW, enjoy the game.  I don't get back to town much, and I think the last time I was at a game the building was called the FUC.

Offline Skates

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2008, 11:10:11 AM »
The thing I have liked about Brand so far, and really did not expect, is his versatility on offense and defense.  On offense he can post low, mid or high depending on who he is matched up with.  Against smaller or lighter players he can bull his way to the basket, against bigger guys he can shoot the jumper or drive pretty deftly to the hole. Plus he can run surprisingly well on the break and handles pretty well for a big guy.

On D he can defend the post straight up, mainly against bigger, bulkier guys, and provide weakside help.  He is rock solid on the D boards.  He does have some trouble with taller, quicker bigs.

I have a lot more hope for Speights due to his higher skill level on offense and his familiarity in playing with other bigs at Florida and early in his NBA career.

Sam OTOH completely lacks versatility.  He did not know basketball when he came into the league at all, and now he has learned a few tricks but that is it.  He has been the sole shotblocker, primary rebounder for a number of years (gimpy Webber played small and grabbed a buch of floor boards) and minimally has been our sole inside presence offensively.  Physically Sam should have the ability to adapt to Brand's game since he is usually better at guarding the quicker, taller bigs Brand has trouble with. 

But his lack of instincts, focus and basketball knowledge has so far prvented him from picking up on how to play with another quality big.  he strays into Brand's area on offense allowing his man to double team easily and he tries to block every shot even when Brand is there.  He goes for every rebound even though Brand may be in better position.  If he had any kind offensive skills, trusted Brand enough to stay with his own man when Brand challenges the shot and got out on the break when Brand defensive rebounds he would fit well in a two big man system.  Unfortunately I think Sam's undeservedly large ego gets in the way of him learning and adapting like this.

jemagee

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2008, 11:42:08 AM »
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7. Iguodala, Miller, Sam, Evans and Lou are all performing worse than last year, and all seem lost some or all of the time they ae on the floor. I do not think it is for lack of effort. These players and coaches need to get them into some kind of comfort level.

Repeatedly I read how the sixers got off to a slow start last year as well - especially Iguodala - are any of these early season numbers comparable to the early season struggles of last year?

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2008, 11:44:51 AM »
why don't you look it up?

jemagee

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2008, 11:47:41 AM »
WOndered if anyone else knew off the to of their heads

Offline tk76-

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2008, 12:00:12 PM »
For some reason Brand has looked much more athletic the last 3 games then he did the fort 6. Esp on defense.  Maybe he is just rounding into form- at least I hope so.

I agree about Sam.  his skill set works, but his court sense gets in the way.  I would love to see Biedrins or Okafor in his place.  Maybe LB would trade Sam for Okafor? (No I'm not serious)

jemagee

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2008, 12:12:49 PM »
I don't ever see a taker for sam until his contract is coming due (just one less year and it might be much more valuable)...the solution is that he becomes a bench player and he accepts it...accepts his role and his limitations...and agrees to do his best to help the team win.

Offline tk76-

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2008, 12:15:24 PM »
Sam thinks he is closer to Chris Bosh then Diop.  He is wrong, but I don't see the Hattian Sensation coming around to reason. 

There are a lot of teams he would start for- just not many who would commit that sort of salary to.

Offline anklebreaker

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Re: Sixers @ Pacers 11/14 - 7pm
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2008, 12:47:57 PM »
We'd more than likely have to take on a bad contract in order to unload Dalembert.  I'm sure a team like Memphis would have some interest in a deal like Dalembert for Antoine Walker and Javaris Crittenton.  Gives them a starting lineup of:

Dalembert
Gasol
Gay
Mayo
Conley

Would you trade Dalembert for another bad contract and a young prospect if the opportunity presented itself?