Author Topic: Star Wars EP 3 Discusison (SPOILERS)  (Read 1842 times)

Offline Derek Bodner

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Star Wars EP 3 Discusison (SPOILERS)
« on: May 25, 2005, 10:37:48 AM »
Saw it last night, what did you think?

Overall, very good movie.  I'd say 2nd behind empire.  But there were a few things that didn't necessarily work for me that prevented it from being a classic.  I'll elaborate later.

I will have to see it again though.  My main gripe I'm not sure if it's a problem or not.  I'm unwavering in my conviction.

Offline SPURSX3

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Star Wars EP 3 Discusison (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2005, 11:34:14 AM »
I though it was very good and will go again to see it as well.  I wasnt happy with Mace dying the way he did because of a whiny Anankin - hell Mace could have ended the whole series right then and there and that would have been cool with me - but to get thrown out of a freaking window!!!  that was bunk!  

second thing is this - if Yoda can lift Lukes fighter out of a bog - how come he couldnt stop HIS OWN fall when fighting Darth Sidious?????  I mean he could have kept on fighting and probably beating Sidious as well.  

there were some other things, that I cracked up at in the movie, but it was very good - the dialogue still bit, but thats what you expect from star wars.  probably go see it again this weekend.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Star Wars EP 3 Discusison (SPOILERS)
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2005, 02:14:53 PM »
I was somewhat diappointed to tell the truth.

Anakins conversion to the dark side was very weak.

I was very impressed with the courage to deal with the "younlings" in the movie, figured they would gloss over that part.  That scene also demonstrated the dept Darth Vader's evilness.
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Offline Derek Bodner

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Star Wars EP 3 Discusison (SPOILERS)
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2005, 03:08:06 PM »
"Anakins conversion to the dark side was very weak."

It was certainly weak on film, and to me that was the most disappointing part of the movie.

I understand the premise.  That he started off going down the darkside for a specific reason, even noble, and that the darkside corrupted him.  When he started out all he wanted was to rescue padme, but the darkside corrupted him and he became obsessed with power, greed and ruling the universe.

What I have a problem with is the sequence of events.

At first I primarily took a problem with 2 scenes.  The murdering of the younglings and the scene where he chokes Padme.  I've rescinded one.  I no longer have a problem with the younglings.

So here's how I follow it.  At first he did the right thing, turned the emperor in.  To me, this shows that at least turning for Padme gave him conflict.  Then he follows Mace.  Makes sense.  Then he tries to stop mace from killing the emperor, rather take him into custody.  Makes sense, wants the emperor alive to use him, but still hasn't turned, is actually upholding the jedi code.  Then he realizes that mace is going to kill the emperor, and that would be the death of padme.  Having exhausted all of his options, he kills mace.  Now he can't go back to the jedi order, as he'd most likely been expelled and probably tried for murder.

All this makes sense.  You can tell he didn't buy into Palpatines cause or plight that the jedi were turning on him, because he originally went to the jedi, then tried to get Palpatine arrested.  He realized Palpatine was wrong, but also that he needed Palpatine.  He turned for a specific reason, to use Palpatine to save Padme, thinking he could then turn back, kill Palpatine, and end the war.

Not having the option of returning to the Jedi, he had to follow Palpatine's command to go through this course of action.  So when he killed the Younglings, he didn't have a choice.  He knew it was wrong, but incorrectly thought he had to do it.  I believe he actually cried at several parts of this movie from here on out, because he knew what he was doing was wrong.  But as I said, he thought he didn't have a choice.

So he kills the separatists leaders (and noone on either side is going to get on him for that), then comes the scene I don't like.  First he talks with Padme.  And his focus shifts.  No longer is it her fate he's worried about, but he immediately talks to her about ruling the galaxy together.  And he really didn't have time for the dark side to corrupt him, as it was only 1 day after he turned.  When Padme brings Obi-Wan with her, he force-chokes her.  I thought this was completely out of character.  His priorities changed too quickly.  If she wasn't going to be with him, he didn't care anymore.  And he wouldn't change back for her.

I can see his focus changing over time, especially after Padme dies, but right away I think it would have been more believable to have him stay focused on his initial goal.

IMO this didn't work for me.  Here's how I thought it should have happened.

- He saves Palpatine from Mace (his turning point, but for a specific reason, saving padme).
- He does the emperors biddings, killing the younglings and the separatist leaders, showing his loyalty (needs to to get palpatine to trust him so he can use him to save padme).
- Padme realizes what he's done, she dies from her broken heart.
- Anakin finds out, no longer is justified in his mind for turning.
- Then the Anakin and Obi-Wan duel.

By the end of the movie I had completely bought Anakin being Darth Vader.  The reason he turned, Padme, was dead.  Obi-Wan had seemingly turned on him, leaving him to die.  All of his friends were dead.  He had nothing left to live for, except a lust for power.  What I didn't buy was his turning from the killing of mace to the choking of padme.

But I have to see it again.

Offline Derek Bodner

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Star Wars EP 3 Discusison (SPOILERS)
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2005, 03:42:56 PM »
You know, if done right, I even could have not had a problem with choking padme.  You can tell he wasn't trying to kill her, if he wanted her dead she would have been dead.  But having believed that she was leaving him, and thinking that Obi-Wan unfairly turned her against him, I could see him being upset with her.

And, frankly, him choking her was pretty necessary, so that the emperor could blame her death on him (even though he didn't physically kill her), and release the last remnants of humanity from him.

But the dialog leading up to that is what turned me off.  His talk of killing palpatine, and the two of them ruling just didn't fit with his prior motive.  He had a reason for turning before that, and after that speech it's like that reason was gone.

And I do believe he had full intentions of killing Palpatine (after his usefulness was up and he saved Padme).  Of course, after he was put in the armor, and had witnessed Palpatines force lightning, that scenario kind of got lost.